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Tuck's reading list [message #1660] Sat, 31 January 2004 15:43 Go to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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A couple of threads recently have brought up what Science Fiction Tuck has read or might like. I thought we might get a checklist of who we know Tuck has read. We know Tuck's read some Heinlein for sure, and we can be close to positive that Tuck's read Douglas Adams as well. (I think there is a way outsite chance Tuck was only familiar with the TV or radio version of Hithchiker's , but that seems extraordinarly unlikely.) In Tucky Season, Tuck recommends Pournelle to Doug, IIRC, so we can add him. And I strongly suspect Tuck has read some H. Beam Piper, based on the Ghu references and the computer named Niflhelm. (Which is a classic Tuckism for Niflheim.) Can anybody else point to other specific writers Tuck has read? Or name books you think Tuck would like, beside the Ender books? (I'll need to try those finally- Card, right?)
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1661] Sat, 31 January 2004 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Terry Pratchett, if Tuck can get past a possible prejudice against fantasy. Vernor Vinge. I'm going to stop with those two, the two SF&Fantasy authors I have myself most recently read, rather than give a huge long list based on 45 years of reading. Smile

- Erin

[Updated on: Sat, 31 January 2004 15:55]

Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1662] Sat, 31 January 2004 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Tuck has CERTAINLY read Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Not only he mentions both by name in "Tucky Season" (I remember this, but I can't check it right now because I lost my copy in a disk crash -- and Ellen has pulled it from the site pending the renovation, darnit.) but also he frequently uses the idiom "on the gripping hand," which comes from the selfsame "The Gripping Hand" book by both authors (and which is the sequel to the much-praised "The Mote in God's Eye" -- which, by the way, according to "The Number of the Beast" is among Heinlein's favourite books EVER).


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1663] Sat, 31 January 2004 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Sir Lee wrote on Sat, 31 January 2004 16:21

(Tuck) frequently uses the idiom "on the gripping hand," which comes from the selfsame "The Gripping Hand" book by both authors.

I'm pretty sure the phrase, "on the Gripping Hand", predates the book and provided the title, not the other way around. I don't remember when I first heard the phrase, but your mention was the first I've ever heard of the book. (Unlike it's famed predecessor.) I'm pretty sure I first encountered the phrase well before 1993, though. Which is not to say that isn't where Tuck learned the phrase.
I'm not sure if we've seen any mention of how Tuck feels about fantasy as opposed to SF. I do think Tuck would enjoy Pratchett immensely, though.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1664] Sun, 01 February 2004 09:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Roxanne  is currently offline Roxanne
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OtherEric wrote on Sat, 31 January 2004 20:43

And I strongly suspect Tuck has read some H. Beam Piper, based on the Ghu references and the computer named Niflhelm. (Which is a classic Tuckism for Niflheim.)


'Ghu' is common enough usage among fans that Tuck wouldn't have to have read H Beam Piper, just had net-friends who were into SF. (Not sure about Niflhelm/heim, though.)

If he's prone to Niven/Pournelle/Heinlein, I'd be surprised if he hadn't read Greg Benford, Greg Bear, maybe Greg Egan, and possibly Gibson and Bruce Sterling - I can't remember what state cyberpunk was in when Tuck is set (1997?). Although the way cyberpunk treats computers would have irritated the crap out of him. Smile
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1665] Sun, 01 February 2004 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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"On the gripping hand" originated with "The Mote in God's Eye".

- Erin
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1666] Sun, 01 February 2004 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Sun, 01 February 2004 14:52

"On the gripping hand" originated with "The Mote in God's Eye".

- Erin


Sorry, but no. The expression "on the gripping hand" does not appear ANYwhere in "The Mote in God's Eye." (The word "gripping" appears three times, and in none of them it's part of anything like the expression).

It appears fairly early in "The Gripping Hand," (which is a sequel to "Mote") with an explanation of its usage -- a third option in the old expression "on one hand... on another hand...", with the understanding that this third option overrides the previous two.

This is the way Tuck uses it, beginning on Chapter 6.

Although the expression "gripping hand" almost certainly predates Niven & Pournelle's book, this specific usage, as a third overriding option, is too tailor-made to have originated in reference to anything else.

The only possibility I see for this expression being already in use before "The Gripping Hand" appearing is if it was the creation of some unnamed fan of "Mote", and N&P appropriated it for the title of the sequel. Even so, it is derived from their work.

By the way, I just got another copy of "Tuck Season" after my hard disk crash, despite Ellen having apparently pulled it out. The Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org was the basic means, although I found another one by chance... on Ellen's own site (she didn't delete the files, she only removed the link).


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1667] Sun, 01 February 2004 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Sir Lee wrote on Sun, 01 February 2004 16:46


Although the expression "gripping hand" almost certainly predates Niven & Pournelle's book, this specific usage, as a third overriding option, is too tailor-made to have originated in reference to anything else.
The only possibility I see for this expression being already in use before "The Gripping Hand" appearing is if it was the creation of some unnamed fan of "Mote", and N&P appropriated it for the title of the sequel. Even so, it is derived from their work.

Well, just to muddy the waters a little further, I went looking for the term online. The most common reference was in the jargon file:
http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/O/on-the-gripping-hand.html
Which puts the phrase and its common use before the book. The jargon file is not quite definitive, to be sure. Now I'm really curious as to where it started.
I apologize to anybody who feels this thread has wandered too far off topic, by the way; and to make it clear to those who are participating that I'm not trying to be argumentative about the subject. It's really just curiosity, but I'm afraid it may not come across that way; and I'm sorry if it looks otherwise.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1668] Sun, 01 February 2004 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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I don't have a copy of the book at hand, but regardless of whether the phrase actually occurs in it, the use of the phrase among Sci-Fi fans and readers began with the first book and not the second one.

I don't know how you can categorically state that the word gripping occurs only three times in the work unless you have an indexed electronic copy. And then only if it is a fully indexed copy or searchable copy. The Mote in God's Eye came out in 1974 and by 1977 "on the gripping hand" meaning the third alternative had become common fannish usage.

- Erin
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1669] Mon, 02 February 2004 00:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Sun, 01 February 2004 23:59

I don't have a copy of the book at hand, but regardless of whether the phrase actually occurs in it, the use of the phrase among Sci-Fi fans and readers began with the first book and not the second one.

The Mote in God's Eye came out in 1974 and by 1977 "on the gripping hand" meaning the third alternative had become common fannish usage.


OK. So, it originated in fandom. That I can buy. It wouldn't be the first time Niven, at least, has incorporated ideas by fans in a sequel to one of his books (he admits it on "Ringworld Engineers").
I wouldn't know about fandom usage -- I'm a leetle bit too far away (about 10.000 km, in fact) from the con circuit. And, anyway, in the seventies I was barely in my teens.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1670] Tue, 03 February 2004 02:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Quote:

(I'll need to try those finally- Card, right?)


Right. But Ender's Game is so different from the sequels that I doubt that Tuck would have gotten to the third and fourth. (The Ender's Shadow series, more like the original, wasn't out in 1997.)

Anyone have a feel for how much SF Tuck is actually reading, as opposed to anime, manga/graphic novels, television, etc.? (Or, I guess, more to the point, how much he read in his early teen years; he hasn't had much chance in the year we've been watching him.) I've been running both ways on this; sometimes I think he's read a lot; other times that he's just read the basics, so to speak, and seen the rest.

Quote:

...if Tuck can get past a possible prejudice against fantasy


Can't speak from personal experience here, but someone who's been playing RPGs with backgrounds as varied as Tuck probably doesn't dislike fantasy. On the other hand, any fantasy references we get in the narrative probably come from RPGs rather than books, Tolkien aside.

Eric
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1671] Tue, 03 February 2004 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Eric wrote on Tue, 03 February 2004 05:56

Anyone have a feel for how much SF Tuck is actually reading, as opposed to anime, manga/graphic novels, television, etc.? (Or, I guess, more to the point, how much he read in his early teen years; he hasn't had much chance in the year we've been watching him.) I've been running both ways on this; sometimes I think he's read a lot; other times that he's just read the basics, so to speak, and seen the rest.


I think he has read a lot. Check the reference on chapter 6, where he mentions "the kinds of books I read" (in reference to Niven & Pournelle's "Mote" books). This suggests that reading SF is a regular habit.
However, I agree that he didn't have much time for it during the last year (except at the times when he was grounded, like in February). Debbie (and later Travis) certainly took a lot of his time; his social life increased a lot, thanks to the Pack; he now has a job; and there is also a new hobby (the synth) to which he has dedicated a lot of time. All these are new factors in his life, cutting mightly into his reading time.
Hmmm, thinking back, maybe he didn't even do much reading in February. Remember that the synth was rather new then... he probably got a little obsessive with it during his grounding.

Let's take it in order... rought timeline of the _new_ factors on Tuck's free time (gaming, for instance, doesn't count -- he did it before Debbie).

(sometime last year) - Begins dating Debbie regularly.
November - Begins going out with the Pack.
Christmas - New synth.
January/February - Grounded for a month.
March - Begins babysitting once in a while
April - Big crisis. Detention.
Late May - School ends, begins babysitting full-time for the Parkers
Early June - Breakup crisis.
Late June - Travis
Late August - Back to school, babysitting part-time

Add to this some "special projects" like getting rid of Nickerson, pranking the school on April 1st, revenge on Rob Walsh and Frank Donner, bugging Linda, organizing the end-of-school party... you end up with very little free time.

So... yes, it seems that for the last year, the only occasion Tuck actually could sit and read a couple or six books would be in February. Only at the time he was too much in love with his new synth to consider it, I think.

Quote:

Can't speak from personal experience here, but someone who's been playing RPGs with backgrounds as varied as Tuck probably doesn't dislike fantasy. On the other hand, any fantasy references we get in the narrative probably come from RPGs rather than books, Tolkien aside.


I have to agree with you. Even if I can't recall any specific internal evidence for this, I think he would be aware of at least the bigger names. Being a Larry Niven fan, for instance, he probably would have read "Magic Goes Away."

And, branching out a bit here, I once (during the "Name that Cat" contest some time ago) discussed with Ellen about possible pop culture references in the Tuckers' household. She seemed to indicate that Tuck may have been exposed to Robert Crumb comics and Bloom County through the parentals. We also know he (and at least some people around him) is a fan of Monty Python, The Simpsons, South Park, Star Trek, Babylon Five and probably Doctor Who. Also a lot of Japanese manga and anime (Ranma 1/2 is mentioned by name). He plays a lot of RPGs, but stayed away of Magic-like card games like the plague because he knew they were addictive. Any other references anybody remembers?


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1673] Sat, 07 February 2004 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dark canuck  is currently offline dark canuck
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Eric wrote on Mon, 02 February 2004 23:56

Can't speak from personal experience here, but someone who's been playing RPGs with backgrounds as varied as Tuck probably doesn't dislike fantasy. On the other hand, any fantasy references we get in the narrative probably come from RPGs rather than books, Tolkien aside.


Thing is, though, most fantasy centers around the main character(s) having an abundance of (insert any of the following: heart, faith, will to succeed, determination, love, whatever) in order to overcome the obstacles they face. With that as a driving force in most books of the genre, it seems to me that Tuck would find most of them to be too "cheesy". Most, if not all, of the reading that Tuck has done has been as Eugene Tucker. Eugene Tucker thinks, he doesn't feel, so books involving faith in a higher power, or the strength of what is good in the world, most likely wouldn't be of interest to him.

With his RPG's, he can still base it around reality, using real strategies and real methods of getting out of unreal situations. fantasy relies on a little deux ex machina for tuck's taste, IMHO.

That being said, if he appreciated Lord Of The Rings, he should have read the Belgariad by now...

Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1674] Sun, 08 February 2004 04:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

However, I agree that he didn't have much time for it during the last year (except at the times when he was grounded, like in February).

So... yes, it seems that for the last year, the only occasion Tuck actually could sit and read a couple or six books would be in February. Only at the time he was too much in love with his new synth to consider it, I think.


there is a LOT of down time in the story. the first couple months of the story are FULL of hours and hours... even whole days without anything said about them. from after the holoween adventures, up until february 21st (chapter 14) is almost totaly empty. then about march 5th (chapter 18) we get to when tuck's time is being totaly monopolised. tuck would have time to read whatever he wanted until then.

but we KNOW that tuck still has time to read regardless of whatever else is going on becouse tuck has time to read all the white wolf books. he gets a huge stack of them, and i've been trying to make myway through even a couple of those books and it's taken me a couple days... i can usualy finish a 400 page book in a day without much trouble, these seem about equivelant at the very least. so, vampire, werewolf, mage, and any extra supliments... mike first discuses the new game they were going to be playing (21:30 15 Aug). tuck first buys his books on (16:22 16 Aug). They first work on characters (??Confused? 17 Aug) though tuck doesn't seem to actualy participate much in that, being too busy cooking. (11:44 19 Aug) they start the character preludes, though he doesn't use his character until the 26th-27... i'm getting too lazy to look that up. but regardless, we know that tuck had a good idea of his character by the 24th.

what does this all mean? that somehow, between the 16th and the 19th, tuck's read probably atleast the first 2-3 books. AND has studied for the ASL examination, had sex, beat up Tom and fretted over Deb... a very busy weekend for tuck even without also reading a couple hundred pages of varius books. so, if tuck can find time to read then, we could assume he can read any other time, it's just never mentioned. actualy, that could also explain some of tuck's changes of... feel... like, he changes some things sometimes, like starting to say the gripping hand thing, he might have read that book around that time and it started infultraiting his thoughts. but he moves on to other books, and the saying falls out of common use.

thought i'm probably giving ellen too much credit. she probably read the book and stole it for that period of the story until she got bored of it.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1682] Wed, 11 February 2004 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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OtherEric wrote on Sat, 31 January 2004 20:43

A couple of threads recently have brought up what Science Fiction Tuck has read or might like. I thought we might get a checklist of who we know Tuck has read.


I just remembered another one.

Episode 22 of the original Tucky Season ends with Tucker quoting "Only men laugh, only men cry, only men dance."

That's a saying on Darkover, from the book series of the same name by Marion Zimmer Bradley. It's possible it existed before that, but I've not come across any other instances.

It's also possible that Tucker (V2) read that during her stay at Jane's academy, in those long hours sitting around being pretty with "literally nothing else to do" (although Tucker had rather a knack of finding things to do), but if so it wasn't mentioned (whereas Charlie's reading of trashy romance novels was) so I took it that Tucker had read it some time previously to that, and thus before her timeline diverged from the main story.

... which would make Jane recognising the quote a simple coincidence.

I don't immediately remember any other Darkover quotes jumping out at me, but in a more general sense if Tuck and Mike aren't bredin I don't know what they are - and I'd be willing to bet they'd recognise that word too. Smile Their oath may or may not be derived from that too, but I can't remember (and my Darkover books are in boxes - I read these when I was not much more than Tucker's age) - didn't jump out at me as such, so probably not. Definitely has the right feel though.


Rachel
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1713] Sat, 21 February 2004 02:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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One more, maybe. Can anyone tell me where Lords of Air, help us! in #103 comes from?

Eric
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1714] Sat, 21 February 2004 05:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harley
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Sounds like Elric, but it could be just about any D&D setting.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1715] Sat, 21 February 2004 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Eric wrote on Sat, 21 February 2004 07:58

One more, maybe. Can anyone tell me where Lords of Air, help us! in #103 comes from?

Eric


I dunno. Pern? That would be my first guess, but I'm not really familiar with those books.


Rachel
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1716] Sat, 21 February 2004 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Here's another thought.

It's only a tenuous thought, as I haven't read it, and the person who suggested it did so based on my description of Tuck, not having read it themselves.

Friday, R.A.Heinlein.

Thinking I'm actually going to have to get the book now. Rolling Eyes God, haven't read Heinlein since I was Tuck's age...


Rachel
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1717] Sat, 21 February 2004 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 21 February 2004 09:22

Friday, R.A.Heinlein.


Hmmm, although the general tone and mindset of Tuck may owe some to having read Heinlein at some point (and, being a geek, he probably did -- it's kinda hard to find a hard-core SF fan who didn't read at least some Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, Bradbury and Wells, even if it's just a couple short stories.)

However, I can't recall any specific references to Heileiniana in general, let alone Friday in particular. It may be that old-guard writers like the five above just aren't Tuck's favourites. His explicit references tend to be to more-recent writers, like Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Douglas Adams, Anne McCaffrey and MZB.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1718] Sat, 21 February 2004 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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I think there were references to "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" "Starship Troopers" and "Stranger in a Strange Land" all by Heinlein in the Saga, though I couldn't tell you exactly where. The only one I'm sure of is "Starship Troopers" but even that was sort of off-hand somewhere early on.

- Erin
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1719] Sat, 21 February 2004 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Sir Lee wrote on Sat, 21 February 2004 07:14

However, I can't recall any specific references to Heileiniana in general, let alone Friday in particular. It may be that old-guard writers like the five above just aren't Tuck's favourites. His explicit references tend to be to more-recent writers, like Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Douglas Adams, Anne McCaffrey and MZB.

Double Star is specifically mentioned in Tucky Season- and Tuck seems somewhat suprised to find that Kenneth not only has a Heinlein book, but one that Tuck hasn't read, IIRC. There is also a specific Heinlein quote not too long ago, about how violence does solve things.
Harlequina wrote

Sounds like Elric, but it could be just about any D&D setting.

I'm not sure either, but my guess was Moorcock as well. I was thinking Corum, though. Let's just say Eternal Champion and we can agree.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1720] Sat, 21 February 2004 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harley
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OtherEric wrote on Sat, 21 February 2004 17:53

Let's just say Eternal Champion and we can agree.


Heh. That *does* widen the net, certainly. *g*
icon6.gif  The Heinlein Dimension [message #1722] Sat, 21 February 2004 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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The bit about violence solving things was something Heinlein used more than once. I think it is specifically in Starship Troopers but also in Time Enough for Love and in Tunnel in the Sky more obliquely.

The elder Tuckers are most likely well acquainted with RAH, given their small-l libertarian (small-p pacificist Smile) beliefs. Bill, himself, is much like a Heinlein hero, competent, self-motivated and as much as possible, self-sufficent, especially in an emergency. And Sarah is only a few degrees off of being a Heinlein heroine, idealistic and pragmatic by turns, opinionated, obstinate, feminist, and tender. She has parallels but no real congruence in a lot of Heinlein stuff. Q.V. The Puppet Masters for what may be her closest match.

And Tuck! Read Podkayne of Mars and see if you don't see a lot of Tuck in both Poddy and Clark. BTW, that book has Poddy either dying or severely wounded at the end and the first person narrative being finished by her kid brother. Shocked

Oh, and see if you can spot Mike in Tunnel in the Sky and Debbie in The Star Beast. Dobson even has a prototype or two in that one. Cool

But at right about a million words (equal to a dozen or so novels) we know Tuck better than we ever got to know any of Heinlein's characters. Tuck is like a member of the family that we don't get to hear from as often as we would like. Laughing

A more thinly drawn character would be more predictable, Tuck has as much reality as Ellen can accomplish, and she can accomplish a great deal. So, like a real person, we really can't predict what is going to happen next in Tuck's life.

And that's the way it should be.

- Erin
icon4.gif  Re: The Heinlein Dimension [message #1723] Sun, 22 February 2004 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Silverkarakuri  is currently offline Silverkarakuri
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Quote:

And Sarah is only a few degrees off of being a Heinlein heroine, idealistic and pragmatic by turns, opinionated, obstinate, feminist, and tender. She has parallels but no real congruence in a lot of Heinlein stuff. Q.V. The Puppet Masters for what may be her closest match.


Though isn't she supposed to be pretty attractive for her years busty bisexual and not at all monogamous?

Sorry a comment my mother used to say about Heinlein was 'Pretty Good Writer Of Science Fiction But Still A Dirty Old Man'

Quote:

But at right about a million words (equal to a dozen or so novels) we know Tuck better than we ever got to know any of Heinlein's characters. Tuck is like a member of the family that we don't get to hear from as often as we would like.

A more thinly drawn character would be more predictable, Tuck has as much reality as Ellen can accomplish, and she can accomplish a great deal. So, like a real person, we really can't predict what is going to happen next in Tuck's life.


I would wonder if Ellen can even tell how Tuck will react, if there is anyone Tuck would be more real to its her... she herself regularly mentions that Tuck doesn't let her write sometimes, especially when things get particularly tough on the kid.

Miss Silver Karakuri
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1728] Thu, 26 February 2004 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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After reading the many comparisons between her characters and Heinlein's, The Author wishes to state ex cathedra at this time, that both Bill and Sarah are monogamous and have never had sex with any of their children.
Just in case you had any questions.
*grins*

Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1729] Thu, 26 February 2004 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Thank you for the clarification, Ellen; even if the thought had never crossed my mind _until_ you brought it up. Smile
One more item we know for sure on Tuck's reading list, which I can't belive I forgot to mention earlier: Harry Harrison, The Stainless Steel Rat.
Mayby it's just me, but it seems like a lot of Tuck's reading list is books that came out or were still easily available in the 70's and early 80's. I wonder how much of what Tuck read was borrowed from Tuck's parent's library, and which one (or both) was the SF fan. Because if Tuck was looking for books on Tuck's own, I would guess Tuck would have read more of the classics from the 40's and 50's; or more 90's stuff. Possibly both.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1730] Fri, 27 February 2004 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T.  is currently offline T.
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Both of my kids, who were 14 in the mid-90's, found and read pretty well all of the SF books mentioned on this list without my input. Without the internet, either... We didn't have any of them at home. Must be a school thing; suddenly all of their friends and cousins were reading the same stuff.

T.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1731] Fri, 27 February 2004 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harley
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OtherEric wrote on Fri, 27 February 2004 03:06

Mayby it's just me, but it seems like a lot of Tuck's reading list is books that came out or were still easily available in the 70's and early 80's. I wonder how much of what Tuck read was borrowed from Tuck's parent's library, and which one (or both) was the SF fan. Because if Tuck was looking for books on Tuck's own, I would guess Tuck would have read more of the classics from the 40's and 50's; or more 90's stuff. Possibly both.


Unless he got many of them second-hand? All these writers are technically still in print here, but they're much easier to come by in second-hand stalls. Don't know about the US.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #1950] Tue, 08 June 2004 01:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Eric wrote on Mon, 02 February 2004 23:56

Right. But Ender's Game is so different from the sequels that I doubt that Tuck would have gotten to the third and fourth. (The Ender's Shadow series, more like the original, wasn't out in 1997.)

Finally picked up a copy of Ender's Game today. And finished it today, as well. Ender would have fit right in with Da Boyz if he had been around then, that's for sure. I actually doubt Tuck has read it, though- I think Tuck would have referenced it at some point if Tuck had seen it.
Still on the Heinlein thing... [message #2008] Wed, 23 June 2004 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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It ocurred to me that (since Tuck is supposed to be a Heinlein fan) one way to get his spirits up would be that he's in good company, regarding his DNA gender mess.

I'm referring, of course, to Libby "Slipstick" Long, mathematical genius, one of the two Heinlein characters with the highest number of appearances in stories, a nose behind Lazarus Long (Libby wasn't on "Time Enough for Love" and Lazarus wasn't in "Misfit" -- but since "Time" is a novel and "Misfit" is a short story, Libby still comes second).

As we learned on "The Number of the Beast," Libby was a XXY, and ended up being "reborn" as a female sometime (off-camera) between "Time Enough..." and "Number." Kinda parallels Tuck's situation... especially considering that Libby was a "scrawny misfit" when we first met him.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2012] Fri, 25 June 2004 12:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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"But Heinlein's a PERV! And if you think for one INSTANT that
I'd consider diddling my sister-"
"Eugene, SHUT UP," Bill commands.
Pause.
"You wouldn't do Susan either; you're already missing digits,"
Tucker throws in. Bill chokes...

More seriously, I don't think Tucker would be 'thrilled' to
find a similar character in later works of Heinlein. His, uh,
explorations of sexuality and gender and family and society and
so on were not, er, too close to mainstream.


Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2013] Fri, 25 June 2004 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Fri, 25 June 2004 17:03

More seriously, I don't think Tucker would be 'thrilled' to
find a similar character in later works of Heinlein. His, uh,
explorations of sexuality and gender and family and society and
so on were not, er, too close to mainstream.



A friend of mine suggested Friday as a possible parallel. I haven't read that one, so I can't really comment on it, but thought I'd pass it on.


Rachel
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2034] Tue, 13 July 2004 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Natalie Cross  is currently offline Natalie Cross
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lets not forget another game that came out around that time of 97-98 called final fantasy 7, had a town named Niflheim.

hell, my middle name is "Junon"


Quite Natalie
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2975] Sun, 26 December 2004 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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I have the annoying feeling that I should be able to identify this one, but I haven't:

06:32 28 Jul

...*Maybe I could convince all the kids to lie down for an early morning nap,* I thought, so I could laugh at the idea, because that was only slightly more likely than the Greys coming down and making me their interstellar emperor.

Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2976] Mon, 27 December 2004 01:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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In Flying Saucer mythology, the Greys are one of the alien races. Or did you mean the reference about kindergarten nap times? Smile

- Erin
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2977] Mon, 27 December 2004 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Eric wrote on Sun, 26 December 2004 19:26

I have the annoying feeling that I should be able to identify this one, but I haven't:

06:32 28 Jul

...*Maybe I could convince all the kids to lie down for an early morning nap,* I thought, so I could laugh at the idea, because that was only slightly more likely than the Greys coming down and making me their interstellar emperor.



Pulled out on its own, it reminds me of a line from Planetary #2- "You'll regret being so damn abusive when the electric UFO gods transphase in from dimension ten to appoint me manager of the universe." (The follow-up line, which makes the original quote so memorable, is "I said that out loud, didn't I?")
Tuck wouldn't have seen that yet, since the comic didn't come out until 1999, but Ellen might have. She just as likely came up with the line on her own, for that matter. I didn't think it was a reference to anything until you asked.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2981] Fri, 31 December 2004 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Janet  is currently offline Janet
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OtherEric wrote on Mon, 27 December 2004 09:34

Eric wrote on Sun, 26 December 2004 19:26

I have the annoying feeling that I should be able to identify this one, but I haven't:

06:32 28 Jul

...*Maybe I could convince all the kids to lie down for an early morning nap,* I thought, so I could laugh at the idea, because that was only slightly more likely than the Greys coming down and making me their interstellar emperor.



Pulled out on its own, it reminds me of a line from Planetary #2- "You'll regret being so damn abusive when the electric UFO gods transphase in from dimension ten to appoint me manager of the universe." (The follow-up line, which makes the original quote so memorable, is "I said that out loud, didn't I?")
Tuck wouldn't have seen that yet, since the comic didn't come out until 1999, but Ellen might have. She just as likely came up with the line on her own, for that matter. I didn't think it was a reference to anything until you asked.
I think that Ellen came up with that on her own. From what I've seen in the story and her comments on the forum she is really careful about avoiding anachronisms.

Now, it is possible that she was aware of the line and adapted it for Tuck to tweak us all a bit... =)


Janet

All that glitters is not Iron Pyrite
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #2997] Tue, 04 January 2005 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cate
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This is probably an enormous stretch, but maybe "the greys" is a reference to Tuck's having read E.E. Smith's Lensmen books. The lensmen who don't have to wait for orders from the top before initiating action were the Gray Lensmen.

Just a thought, or maybe I've been flavoring my milk with too much choclatey flavored Boskone.
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #3001] Wed, 05 January 2005 03:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Thanks, Cate. Whether it makes sense in this context or not, that's undoubtedly why I thought that I should recognize it.

Eric
Re: Tuck's reading list [message #3002] Wed, 05 January 2005 07:43 Go to previous message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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The Grays (or Greys) are actually from UFO mythology; all the 'weirdo' kids I knew in high school had some knowledge of such things, and the available information has only gotten easier to find with the popularity of the Internet.


Ellen
nosig

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