Home » Tuck Fanfic » Other Fanfics » The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..."
The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3649] Fri, 10 June 2005 07:01 Go to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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The second main chapter of my story is now up. Or third, counting the prologue.

Full announcement and story itself in the usual place. URL in my sig. Smile


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3650] Fri, 10 June 2005 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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I want to give it a little while before I start throwing out spoilers, but I figure it's safe to start with "Thank You!" I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this- this is definitly Nathan's story, not Valerie's.

I would like to mention that I'm unable to access parts of the site, even if I'm logged in, such as the comment sections or the plaintext version of the story. Which is odd, because I originally had no problem.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3651] Fri, 10 June 2005 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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OtherEric wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 21:03

I want to give it a little while before I start throwing out spoilers, but I figure it's safe to start with "Thank You!" I'm interested in seeing where you're going with this- this is definitly Nathan's story, not Valerie's.


Would it be too much of a spoiler for me to say: "it won't always be"? You may infer this because the overall story is called The Taken, but this part of the story is called Nathan's Story, in a deliberate echo of the way many of the Seasons stories are named. Hang in there. It is Valerie's story too, we're just not seeing her point of view yet. Smile

(You think I'd go through the pain and torment of trying to reconcile my view of Valerie with Ellen's on a weekly basis if she wasn't going to be a major character? Oh, hi Ellen. Embarassed )

OtherEric continued

I would like to mention that I'm unable to access parts of the site, even if I'm logged in, such as the comment sections or the plaintext version of the story. Which is odd, because I originally had no problem.


Hmm.

You can't post comments? There's no comments "section" as such, just that articles can have comments made against them. I made the comments available only to logged-in members after I received some comment-spam. You're saying that you can't leave comments even so?

There are, by design, no comments on the story pages themselves, only on the articles, including the announcements. As a logged-in member you should also be able to submit new articles.

At the moment the plaintext versions aren't made available, so that's -ENOTABUG. It was an extra level of complexity, and I thought Ellen was the only one who insisted on plaintext, and by the time a chapter goes 'live' she's probably even more fed up of it than I am! Razz

If it's thought really important, I'll reinstate the plaintext versions directly linkable from the site. Naturally I can't do the popup-subtitles in plaintext; the French dialogue and subtitles will appear like this, eg:

"<<Oui, Madame,|Yes, Madam,>>" she said.

... with all accents squashed down to 7-bit "us-ascii" encoding.

Update: I've enabled comments for all. Looks like the comments code is a little buggy. We'll see if there's a comment-spam problem. If so, my solution would probably be simply to make them moderated instead - ie: they go through me.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 June 2005 17:37]


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3652] Fri, 10 June 2005 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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rachel.greenham wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 14:15

You can't post comments? There's no comments "section" as such, just that articles can have comments made against them. I made the comments available only to logged-in members after I received some comment-spam. You're saying that you can't leave comments even so?


More than that; I can't even read them, even when logged in. I get a "You are not authorized to view this resource" message. Like I said, this was only recently a problem- I'm one of the few people who did leave comments earlier.

rachel.greenham wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 14:15

At the moment the plaintext versions aren't made available, so that's -ENOTABUG. It was an extra level of complexity, and I thought Ellen was the only one who insisted on plaintext, and by the time a chapter goes 'live' she's probably even more fed up of it than I am! Razz


It's not vitally important; but I really prefer plaintext unless there is a compelling reason for it to be HTML instead. HTML is great for web browsing, but it (IMO) stinks on ice if you want to actually save a copy of a story. Which I generally want to do if it's going to take longer than about ten minutes to read. For one thing, my favorite method of "bookmarking" a story is to make an extra copy, and then delete what I've already read when I need to save it.

Perhaps Ellen and I are the only two people who prefer it that way. But I'm cheering Ellen on every step of the way in that matter.

(I will add that your instant translations comes very close to the "compelling reason" I would want. It's the well-established prescedent of the other Tuck stories that makes me want the plain-text instead anyway- one HTML file would feel out of place to me. Yes, I'm being picky and unreasonable. Razz)

(I've realized this rant is more meant for the universe at large, than you in particular. You just gave me the opening. Sorry about that. And please don't let it take priority over the most important point, which is I like the story and am eagerly awaiting more.)

[Updated on: Fri, 10 June 2005 17:41]

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3653] Fri, 10 June 2005 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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OK. Plaintext available, if you follow the main "The Taken" link from the home page. There's also an Ellen-style zipfile. Personally, I think you're nuts. Razz I like things to be nicely presented.

Other options:

You could mirror the site locally. Easiest on a linux or unixoid: wget -m -k http://www.strangenoises.org/taken/ will do it. The first time it grabs the whole site, then in future it only grabs the changed/added pages. Obviously you can't log in or search or post comments, but for offline browsing it works fine.

Also, you could use the browser to save the story page to disk and read later. If you select the option to save complete page rather than just the bare HTML you'll get the CSS too. If you do this from the "Print" page (icon at the top of each story page) it'll be minimal, ie: with no surrounding menus or graphics.

If anyone wants to mirror it publicly, the Creative Commons license used allows you to do so, as long as you don't mess with the attribution or the content, and as long as you don't charge for access. The license means you don't need, legally, to ask me, but if you do I can help out with technical details, and I'd like to know anyway.

--
Rachel

[Updated on: Fri, 10 June 2005 19:18]


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3654] Fri, 10 June 2005 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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rachel.greenham wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 16:16

OK. Plaintext available, if you follow the main "The Taken" link from the home page. There's also an Ellen-style zipfile. Personally, I think you're nuts. Razz I like things to be nicely presented.

Thank you. For the record, I never claimed to be anything other than nuts. Twisted Evil BUT, I don't consider myself nuts on this subject. Now, I'm going to move my further thoughts on this over to a new thread in the geek city forum, so it stops getting in the way of discussing your story.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3657] Fri, 10 June 2005 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Just a note, this box has the current version of IE on it. I only use it to view pages that don't display properly in Firefox (oddfly a number of those don't display properly in IE either).

I've got a plugin that let's you right click on a page and have a choice on the menu to "View this page in IE". Doing so shows that, alas your "subtitles" for the French do *not* work in IE.

And that's with IE 6.0.2900.2180 whih is apparently the latest version.

Sad
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3662] Sat, 11 June 2005 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 03:11

Just a note, this box has the current version of IE on it. I only use it to view pages that don't display properly in Firefox (oddfly a number of those don't display properly in IE either).

I've got a plugin that let's you right click on a page and have a choice on the menu to "View this page in IE". Doing so shows that, alas your "subtitles" for the French do *not* work in IE.

And that's with IE 6.0.2900.2180 whih is apparently the latest version.

Sad


Poosticks. What's the failure-mode?

If it can be fixed in CSS, and some enterprising soul wants to do it, go ahead and I'll apply the fix. If you can make the fix apply only to IE that would be preferred, as real browsers can handle it as it is and I'd rather not mess that up.

/me struggles to care that much. Use firefox, guys and gals and the rest of you. Smile There's really no reason to use IE any more except odd emergencies like Brooke keeps hers for (ie: dealing with braindead sites).

Anyone got any reaction to the story? Hmm? hmm? Smile


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3664] Sat, 11 June 2005 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 05:14

Anyone got any reaction to the story? Hmm? hmm? Smile

I enjoyed it. It seems the question of Eleanor has been pretty definitively answered. Nathan seems to be reacting to the whole thing in an unusual fashion- not quite wrong, but the things causing the reactions seem to not be exactly what is supposed to casue them. Still, this was fairly typical Jane; there's not a lot to say other than note the oddities so we can go "Oho!" when the explinations pop up later.

Oh, and I am still unable to acccess the comments, even logged in, just to read, using firefox. Which is all minor, since we have here to comment.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3668] Sat, 11 June 2005 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 05:14

Brooke wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 03:11

Just a note, this box has the current version of IE on it. I only use it to view pages that don't display properly in Firefox (oddfly a number of those don't display properly in IE either).

I've got a plugin that let's you right click on a page and have a choice on the menu to "View this page in IE". Doing so shows that, alas your "subtitles" for the French do *not* work in IE.

And that's with IE 6.0.2900.2180 whih is apparently the latest version.

Sad


Poosticks. What's the failure-mode?


Failure mode is that those sections of text are no different from the english text. No reaction whatsoever to moving the cursor over them.

BTW, you forgot to do that for where Maries calls Nathan "Cherie" Smile

rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 05:14

If it can be fixed in CSS, and some enterprising soul wants to do it, go ahead and I'll apply the fix. If you can make the fix apply only to IE that would be preferred, as real browsers can handle it as it is and I'd rather not mess that up.


Since I have no idea how you are doing it in the first place, I can't help. I haven't gotten to CSS yet.

rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 05:14

/me struggles to care that much. Use firefox, guys and gals and the rest of you. Smile There's really no reason to use IE any more except odd emergencies like Brooke keeps hers for (ie: dealing with braindead sites).


Alas, for some reason Firefox and the like don't "recognize" the MS webdings font. Which gets used for some "interesting" stuff.

rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 05:14

Anyone got any reaction to the story? Hmm? hmm? Smile


I'm waiting to see what happens when Jane and Valerie compare notes. If they do, I'm looking forward to Jane's reaction when Val informs her than Nathan was practicing walking on his own and doing quite well at it.

I also hope that at *some* point Jane finds out what Nathan was thinking at bedtime. That's one of the *big* holes in her program. The more "worldly" kids *are* going to think that. And it's very much counter to what she intends them to think.

Oooo! Evil thought, which I can't use... Picture Jane's reaction if some kid thinks what Nathan is thinking, but has spent some time on the street and comes right out and *says* it, along with a "Ok, fine, do it so I can get some sleep..."

Poor Jane. Especially if Dianna or Val has to *explain* to her what just happened.

But getting back to your story, it's going well. I *am* curious as to why Nathan is so "touch shy".

I also have a bet with myself as to something that's going to happen in the next day or so (in story time).

It's gonna be a *long* month...

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3676] Sat, 11 June 2005 22:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 11 June 2005 20:29


Alas, for some reason Firefox and the like don't "recognize" the MS webdings font. Which gets used for some "interesting" stuff.



Using WingDings and WebDings (despite the name) in webpages is a bad idea, because those fonts are highly non-standard. A somewhat more detailed explanation can be found here:

http://www.alanwood.net/demos/wingdings.html

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3681] Sun, 12 June 2005 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Rachel, I think there is a way of doing the pop-up translation that might work in most browsers.

Basically, you would put the translation into a TITLE attribute. This by itself would make the text available as a pop-up. The bad part, of course, is that you can't format the pop-up window.

However, the "Nice Titles" trick at kryogenix.org http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/nicetitle/ can help. The demo page formats the pop-ups to resemble the ones in Apple's Safari browser, but you can adapt it to your taste. And it's supposed to fall back gracefully: even if you disable Javascript, you only lose the formatting -- the pop-up will still display normally.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3689] Sun, 12 June 2005 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sir Lee wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 06:29

Rachel, I think there is a way of doing the pop-up translation that might work in most browsers.


It does work in most browsers. The one it doesn't work in is the one you shouldn't be using anyway. IE users probably missed the footnotes in the prologue too...

Sir Lee

Basically, you would put the translation into a TITLE attribute. This by itself would make the text available as a pop-up.


Hmm.

Sir Lee

The bad part, of course, is that you can't format the pop-up window.

However, the "Nice Titles" trick at kryogenix.org http://www.kryogenix.org/code/browser/nicetitle/ can help. The demo page formats the pop-ups to resemble the ones in Apple's Safari browser, but you can adapt it to your taste. And it's supposed to fall back gracefully: even if you disable Javascript, you only lose the formatting -- the pop-up will still display normally.



Hmm. hmm. Uses Javascript though, which I'd rather avoid.

Hmm.


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3691] Sun, 12 June 2005 07:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Heck, *I* missed the footnotes in the prologue. Because there's no indication that there *is* a footnote. So, since I use the scrool wheel or space bar to move thru the document, I didn't even know the footnotes were there.

Someone mentioned them and I think I had to do something like examine the source to find all of them.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3692] Sun, 12 June 2005 08:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 12:26

Heck, *I* missed the footnotes in the prologue. Because there's no indication that there *is* a footnote. So, since I use the scrool wheel or space bar to move thru the document, I didn't even know the footnotes were there.

Someone mentioned them and I think I had to do something like examine the source to find all of them.



Um, the red numerals in superscript? There's one each identifying each song quoted, and a couple of others. They're not meant to be too distracting. Smile

... talking of which I appear to have broken the effect for those even on Firefox. Wonder how that happened. (update: fixed)

But anyway, the suggested fix uses Javascript, but what the Javascript does is write a new block into the document. The display properties of that block are then defined in CSS in a similar way to mine. So IE's brokenness is in not supporting the CSS :hover properly. It wants it done on a onMouseOver javascript event. Ugh.

/me goes off to fix the footnotes.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2005 08:26]


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3693] Sun, 12 June 2005 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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For those that care, the subtitle effect should now work on IE. I'm not sure if they'll be displayed in the right place, but they should at least appear.

Anyone who tried to access the pages while I was messing with it probably had problems. Smile


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3695] Sun, 12 June 2005 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 05:18

Brooke wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 12:26

Heck, *I* missed the footnotes in the prologue. Because there's no indication that there *is* a footnote. So, since I use the scrool wheel or space bar to move thru the document, I didn't even know the footnotes were there.

Someone mentioned them and I think I had to do something like examine the source to find all of them.



Um, the red numerals in superscript? There's one each identifying each song quoted, and a couple of others. They're not meant to be too distracting. Smile


They were a little *too* non-distracting. And look more brown than red on my screen. As in completely ignored at reading speed. Especially since lower case *Roman* numerals (which is what they showed up as in FireFox) look too much like single and double quotes. And are placed "appropriately" for such.

BTW, I just went to recheck, and *now* the footnootes show up without any mousing at all. For example:

"i Catatonia, Strange Glue. International Velvet"

all in one string of superscripted red text. Sad

In IE, the superscripted "i" is there, but nothing happens when I move the mouse over it. Nor when I try any of several other things.

I do hope you don't have to go to the extreme of detecting the browser and showing one version for IE and a different version for the rest.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2005 17:26]

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3696] Sun, 12 June 2005 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 12 June 2005 22:22

BTW, I just went to recheck, and *now* the footnootes show up without any mousing at all. For example:

"i Catatonia, Strange Glue. International Velvet"

all in one string of superscripted red text. Sad


when did you find this? because I fixed it much earlier today, and it's still fixed now. You may need to shift-reload or something to make sure you've got the up-to-date CSS in your browser. That's a static file and your browser or an upstream proxy may be holding onto a cached copy (which would also prevent the IE workaround for subtitles working).

Quote:

I do hope you don't have to go to the extreme of detecting the browser and showing one version for IE and a different version for the rest.


This is what I've done for the subtitles in nathan2 - essentially there's a little bit of Javascript that only runs in IE, that adds onmouseover and onmouseout events to the <a class="subtitled"> tags. I'll do the same for footnotes later.

BTW, the reason some are in roman and some are in arabic numerals is because the former are actually endnotes. The idea is they should be collectable at the end. (ie: a playlist.) Problem is, I'm now authoring in Pages instead of OpenOffice/NeoOfficeJ, and that doesn't have a distinction between endnotes and footnotes, so I'll probably have to work out some other hack to get that working next time a song is quoted.


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3700] Mon, 13 June 2005 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Works again in Firefox after doing a ctrl-R reload.

In IE it still doesn't work, after every sort of reload I tried. Sad

Might be my IE settings, but I try not to mess with those.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3707] Mon, 13 June 2005 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 05:25

Works again in Firefox after doing a ctrl-R reload.

In IE it still doesn't work, after every sort of reload I tried. Sad

Might be my IE settings, but I try not to mess with those.



I didn't attempt to fix the footnotes for IE. Only the subtitles in nathan2. The subtitles fix is known to work in IE6, and it also works in Firefox when I disable the CSS method and the IE-only check.

I don't have a Windows around to test this myself, and I have some difficulty caring. No-one should be using IE as their primary browser unless they want a world of pain anyway.


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3709] Mon, 13 June 2005 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Right, subtitle effect does now work on IE. It was the code that detected IE that was at fault. The positioning of the subtitles is a little eccentric (they're supposed to appear just under the relevant line rather than partially overlapping it), but it works. Haven't yet applied the same fix to the footnotes for IE.

Also, the Write Comments link now works, after a little php hackery.

I hope you're happy. I had to dig out Virtual PC and install Windows for this! Razz


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3711] Mon, 13 June 2005 19:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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You have my sympathies. I had to actually dig up an old Mac to solve a problem a user was having once.

Currently, I can't get any of my (old & ancient) Macs to talk to my router, so I can't check stuff on them. Luckily I haven't needed to.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3720] Tue, 14 June 2005 04:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 00:31

You have my sympathies. I had to actually dig up an old Mac to solve a problem a user was having once.

Currently, I can't get any of my (old & ancient) Macs to talk to my router, so I can't check stuff on them. Luckily I haven't needed to.



I'm not worried about them. The site works fine in Safari and Firefox. It'll work in Camino too, as that's also Gecko-based. I haven't tested the latest stuff on Opera, but the footnotes worked on that, so I expect the subtitles will too. Netscape 4.x will probably barf at the CSS, I expect, but I really don't care. I also don't care about IE for Mac although on OS9 it's probably got a better chance at working than Netscape 4. (For a while IE was the best Mac browser available. I didn't have a Mac in those days!)

The textfile version exists for people whose browsers are too lame. I used to include a HTML3 version (actually also XHTML but limiting itself to HTML3 capabilities), but I didn't really see the point, and it complicated the site having to have links to it.


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3728] Tue, 14 June 2005 14:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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[quote title=rachel.greenham wrote on Fri, 10 June 2005 22:15](You think I'd go through the pain and torment of trying to reconcile my view of Valerie with Ellen's on a weekly basis if she wasn't going to be a major character? Oh, hi Ellen. Embarassed )[/qoute]

Which comPLETEly fails to explain why _I_ am going through the agony of trying to explain Valerie to this cement-headed Brit who barely speaks English at times.
*waves, smiling, back at Rachel*


Ellen
nosig
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3729] Tue, 14 June 2005 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 09:18

The textfile version exists for people whose browsers are too lame.


Ah, fuck you so very much for the reference, Rachel! *beams*


Ellen
nosig
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 2. "... and boomps-a-daisy..." [message #3731] Tue, 14 June 2005 16:47 Go to previous message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 11:54

rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 14 June 2005 09:18

The textfile version exists for people whose browsers are too lame.


Ah, fuck you so very much for the reference, Rachel! *beams*


I'm trying to decide now if this means I'm not allowed to use the textfile version. After all, my browser can handle the fancier verison just fine. It's just my personal preference to have text version.

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