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Tuck 121 ... [message #4806] Sat, 14 October 2006 20:58 Go to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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... is out, 14 October, with a new note from Ellen (but don't read that first), and no one has mentioned it yet?

And here I've been offline for almost two weeks; nice to find this. Surprising that there aren't comments yet. It's a good 'un, too ....

Amy!
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4807] Sun, 15 October 2006 02:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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A few thoughts...
-Tuck's health seems to be relapsing a bit for the worst - probably from psych stress. He tends to be more confused about time and events than earlier, when he'd just returned to babysitting.
-The fact that there were people at the Sunday dinner that he didn't recognize can mean either they are new to his acquaintence, or he's still very confused of people around him. Could mean ominous things if he returns to school Wednesday. His environmental awareness is handicapped.
-Looks like something is really up with Kim... possibly the result of feeling on the outside because she's been excluded from the social engineering of Debbie or Mike in the earlier weeks. Hurt not being trusted by the gang?
-Mrs. Parker may be trying to be conciliatory with Val, recognizing her behaviour towards Val in the previous week? Or possibly Ricky recognizes the change in behaviour between his mother and Val and voiced this with Mrs. Parker.

Funny - Ellen didn't give any hints on costumes when they discussed it over dinner... Smile
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4809] Sun, 15 October 2006 07:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Fight Club the movie didn't come out until 1999. The *book* predates this story, but it surprises me that Tuck would have read it...


Rachel
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4810] Sun, 15 October 2006 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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First few thoughts:

Just what we need, the Suburban Panthers... I still think a pyramid cell system, for all its efficiency, is going to set up jealousy issues as to how close to the top people are, which could backfire on the whole project. (If this thing makes it to April, Columbine will probably produce second thoughts among administrators and parents about enforcers and weapons in school. But that's a long way off.)

The cellphone messages reminded me: I wonder if the pager will ever turn up? We (and Tuck) still don't know what messages Travis left.

Is Ellen setting us up for severe short-term memory problems with Tuck when he returns to school? (Post-concussion syndrome?)

Don't know which way things are going to move at the Parkers'. But leaving Val out of the loop with the dog isn't a good sign, even if she's wrong about their setting it up to distract Ricky from her being fired.

(Seems to me that the obvious move by the Parkers, since they know Val's taking medication frequently, would be to phone Debbie, express concern about Val's ability to react in an emergency, and request a different sitter for another couple of weeks. That'd allow them to fire her later without direct contact if they decided that was the way to go. Of course, there's still Debbie's blackmail threat about getting Ms. Parker's sister fired...)

Eric
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4812] Sun, 15 October 2006 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cate
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I think that the health thing isn't a relapse of the pneumonia, or anything related to the injuries. It's just a return of Val's asthma. Question is will it be a short term occurance going into remission; or a new ongoing element to the story.

As to the Mrs Parker question, I think she is just trying to apologize. Ellen in the past has had Tuck collate all of the right information to reach an exceedingly wrong answer. My bet is that this is another one of those instances.
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4815] Mon, 16 October 2006 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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lurker wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 23:51

-Looks like something is really up with Kim... possibly the result of feeling on the outside because she's been excluded from the social engineering of Debbie or Mike in the earlier weeks. Hurt not being trusted by the gang?

Debbie recruited Kim to handle the data entry for the cell system, so Kim probably doesn't consider herself completely out of the loop any more. But if she perceives that Debbie's the only one of her (former?) friends that trusts her, it'd certainly change her situation. Would Debbie find a way to take advantage?

Eric
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4816] Tue, 17 October 2006 10:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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lurker wrote on Sat, 14 October 2006 23:51

A few thoughts...
-Looks like something is really up with Kim... possibly the result of feeling on the outside because she's been excluded from the social engineering of Debbie or Mike in the earlier weeks. Hurt not being trusted by the gang?


Since I just hit the "appropriate" stretch of the story in my current re-read, I supect this goes back to the "welcome" Kim & Jill got on Sep 27(?) when they showed up to pick up Mike and tuck from that little "hike".

Kim is really pushing it and pissed off a lot with both Mike and Tuck from then on.
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4817] Tue, 17 October 2006 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 05:57

First few thoughts:

Just what we need, the Suburban Panthers... I still think a pyramid cell system, for all its efficiency, is going to set up jealousy issues as to how close to the top people are, which could backfire on the whole project.


Thing is, you don't have to design a tetrahedral "mesh" cell structure as a pyramid. Given Sarah's expressed desire to not have a hierarchy to get co-opted, It may just spread out from a center rather than go "top down" the way the system in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress did.

Eric wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 05:57

(If this thing makes it to April, Columbine will probably produce second thoughts among administrators and parents about enforcers and weapons in school. But that's a long way off.)


On the other hand, Columbine could be used by Dobson and others as a "see what happensd if we don't do this stuff to de-fuse the bullying problem?"

Still gonna have people annoyed and objecting to various things, but as long as the "enforcers" haven't done anything drastic, I think they'll get away with it.

I asso see no evidence for anybody but Tuck being armed. He can likely get away with it as "necessary for self-defense". I don't see "arming" any other students as a likely thing.

Besides, have you got any idea how many perfectly ordinary items for someone to have at school make dandy weapons if you've been taught to think of them that way?

Eric wrote on Sun, 15 October 2006 05:57

The cellphone messages reminded me: I wonder if the pager will ever turn up? We (and Tuck) still don't know what messages Travis left.


I'm starting to wonder as well, since a standard move when a pager is involved in a serious criminal case is to ask the pager company to supply the police with another pager on the same number or take other measures so the cops have a record of all pages sent to the number.

And since it was stolern from the victim, I don't think they even need a warrant. Or if they do, it'd be a slam dunk to get it.

So the cops should have a record of all message from at most a day or two after the attack.

This could cause a few problems for Travis unless they ask Tuck about it.

(I'm amazed I didn't remember this bit of procedure months ago!)

[Updated on: Tue, 17 October 2006 10:28]

Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4820] Tue, 17 October 2006 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
woodwiz  is currently offline woodwiz
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I really liked seeing the gang including the freshthings in their festivities. Nice to see them prove that they aren't particulary stuck-up or clanish.

Good to see little Valerie there even if she and Tuck still couldn't quite talk. (or look at each other)

Hmm..so what comes in the next chapter. Does Miz Parker see Valerie or "a freak" when she looks at Tuck? My suspicion? She sees Valerie, a girl who she cares about, crying. Guess Ellen will let us know before too long.
Poor Valerie - Tuck [message #4821] Tue, 17 October 2006 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Tuckerspawn
The fear of not knowing if Mrs. Parker is going to axe her job must be tremendous on Tuck. Tuck actually cares about the job and watching over Ricky and Stella. Its the nurturing instinct brought out in him that makes him want to be there. More reason I believe Tuck is not gay and is just a girl being herself and does not realize it.

I do not think Mrs. Parker would fire Tuck because of who he/she is. Mr. Parker might be insisting she do it behind the scenes. But I think Mrs. Parker is ok with Valerie and can see just who the person behind the body is. I do not believe Mrs. Parker would fire Valerie or lay her off.

It is interesting to note how Ricky is attaching more to Valerie. Practically making Valerie part of the family. I wonder, if Valerie were forced to take pay cut because of financial constraints o nthe Parkers, would she watch them still? I woulkd like to think so. Ricky and Stella mean a whole lot to Valerie and in mother mode Valerie has actually had a good time in most of the chapters babysitting them both.

I as a reader would be upset if Valerie were "axed" because of bigotry and i hope it doesnt happen. Anything is possible, and Ellen may certainly do it. I also believe in Newtown's law for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction: ie. enough has happened to Tuck that a lot of good must now come his way!

Sephrena Miller
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4822] Tue, 17 October 2006 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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A subject not discussed in either Tuck 120 or 121...
I thought it would have been an interesting opportunity that didn't happen, either during the sleepover or the Sunday nite dinner, that the discussion of Tuck's "flash" shooting of Debbie a few weeks earlier wasn't discussed. It would have been interesting to see the polarization of views by the pack members the nite before, or when Tuck pulled out his sheathed batons prior to the Sunday dinner...

Or do any of you think Mike might have warned that it was a taboo subject for either evening, with the Tucker parents around?
Re: Tuck 121 ... [message #4823] Wed, 18 October 2006 04:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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lurker wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 19:58

A subject not discussed in either Tuck 120 or 121...
I thought it would have been an interesting opportunity that didn't happen, either during the sleepover or the Sunday nite dinner, that the discussion of Tuck's "flash" shooting of Debbie a few weeks earlier wasn't discussed. It would have been interesting to see the polarization of views by the pack members the nite before, or when Tuck pulled out his sheathed batons prior to the Sunday dinner...

Or do any of you think Mike might have warned that it was a taboo subject for either evening, with the Tucker parents around?

Just ten or eleven days earlier, I think, if I have the chronology right.

My guess would be that it didn't come up at the sleepover because Tuck had warned people that stressful discussions would be hazardous to his health.

As for Sunday dinner, there were people there (the littles) who weren't cleared for that information. I'm reasonably sure that Debbie wasn't discussing it publicly at school or in her group meetings, since her focus there was on Tuck as one of the victims of school attacks, not as a possible attacker.

You may be right that Pack members wouldn't want to discuss it at the dinner table in any case. But I don't think Mike would have wanted or needed to warn them.

They already know that Tuck's parents are, in Kim's words, "almost as crazy as he is" on the subjects of weaponry and readiness. (And she said that before the events of the past month.) They're probably less likely now to dismiss Tuck's past offhand assertions that his parents are capable of assassinating people perceived as threats.

(I wonder if Kim feels that her life is in danger from the Tuckers and Mike. If so, who would she ask for help, knowing that Debbie was helpless in a similar situation: her sister's friends?)

Eric
Re: Poor Valerie - Tuck [message #4824] Wed, 18 October 2006 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Sephrena wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 19:51

I do not think Mrs. Parker would fire Tuck because of who he/she is. Mr. Parker might be insisting she do it behind the scenes.

I think the contrary is true. It's Miz Parker who finds the situation threatening to her and her kids; I think Mister Parker is cool with it, not really caring what the details are as long as Ricky and Stella are taken care of properly. Obviously he'd be upset that his wife was upset, but from the scene the day Debbie came over to defuse the situation, the problems weren't his, especially after Mike and Debbie's explanation. (Or that's how I read it.)

Eric
Pyramids and SF Grand Masters [message #4826] Mon, 23 October 2006 03:18 Go to previous message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 17 October 2006 07:17

Thing is, you don't have to design a tetrahedral "mesh" cell structure as a pyramid. Given Sarah's expressed desire to not have a hierarchy to get co-opted, It may just spread out from a center rather than go "top down" the way the system in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress did.

You're right about the theory. But when Sabrina brought it up, the pyramid part of the cell structure seemed to be what Tuck recognized from Heinlein:
11:23 26 Oct

"Debbie said a, uh, a cell structure?"
That made me perk up. "Say what?"
"She called it a cell structure, though it seems more like a pyramid thing to me, the way she described it."
I'd never known Debbie read Heinlein; it made me shiver.

On the general subject of SF devices, Tuck would have been familiar with the new-dog-to-distract-the-kid-from-the-babysitter trick from "Robbie" (aka "Strange Playfellow"), the first story in Asimov's I, Robot. The parallel there -- Val and Robbie both creating discomfort for the kid's mother because of what they are, despite doing an outstanding job, with the father acquiescing in their removal -- will be scarily precise, if Tuck's fears prove to be justified.

Eric
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