Home » Tuck Talk » Chapter by Chapter » Tuck 125
Tuck 125 [message #4973] Sun, 04 February 2007 18:35 Go to next message
lurker
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Obviously 125 is up...

Mom (Sarah) in therapy cause she's confused? This is going to be good.... Smile
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4974] Sun, 04 February 2007 19:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Way to avoid the main development right there...

Shocked

No real comment to go with the smiley above, other than it captures my reaction to the chapter quite well. I'll wait until it's been up a bit longer before posting real comments and spoilers.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4975] Mon, 05 February 2007 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
karen_page  is currently offline karen_page
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Well it has finally happened. I must say that Jill, after what seems an age of subtle hints decided the only way was a direct confrontation.

On the other side there seems to me a very rapid thawring of the hostilities from Debbie. The things she was asking during the babysitting suggested to me that Debbie wanted to get back with Tuck.

Was Jill's timing chance? Did she know that Debbie wanted back with Tuck and acted quickly to get Tuck? What will Debbie's reaction be when she finds out?

How Soundproof is Tuck's room? Perhaps Tuck's parents will be happy for Eugene to be having sex - it might seem to them that it is the start of the end of Val. On the other hand Tuck and Jill did seem to enjoy the lesbian side as well.

One final though...how will Kim react? She is frightened of men and finds the thought of Tuck an interesting compromise. Will she be more upset now her friend has that compromise?


Too much to think about


Karen
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4976] Mon, 05 February 2007 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Cookies! Must have cookies!

- Erin
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4978] Mon, 05 February 2007 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Man, did Sarah and Bill dip Tuck in honey when he was born or what? I mean... Debbie, Travis, Kim and now Jill, all vying for his attentions. Razz

Now, seriously... Debbie has been trying to (at least) make peace with Tuck for a while. Now, instead of "giving him space," she seems to have taken a more direct approach.

Is she trying to get back with him? It's likely, but not certain. Or she might not even realized that yet. But, at the very least, she misses him as a friend. Her reaction when he was attacked was very telling: as Bill pointed out, she didn't hesitate in doing whatever was necessary to help him.

Now, on the Jill front...

What does Jill want out of this relationship? Unknown at this point. She might want a boyfriend, or it might be that she want just a bit of comfort. It has been implied that her situation at home is quite bad, and it might be becoming worse. However, I doubt that either she OR Tuck is mature enough to handle a "friends with privileges" kind of relationship. Either this will be a one-time thing, or they will try being a couple for a while.

Another point that raises itself is about Jill's sexuality. To put it another way... is she attracted to "Tuck" or to "Val"? Up til now, other than her tomboyishness, we haven't seen any evidence of her being anything but straight. She might be bi, but it's a bit too convenient the number of bi people close to Tuck.

As for Tuck... well, a cute girl *asking* for sex from him, and them saying he performed *way better* than other guys, even when he was *nowhere near* full health, HAS to be a booster to his remaining male ego. Tuck is still a bit preoccupied with labeling (straight/gay) and apparently didn't realize himself that he's actually bisexual -- he enjoyed sex with Debbie, then with Travis, and now with Jill.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4979] Mon, 05 February 2007 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 13:17

Man, did Sarah and Bill dip Tuck in honey when he was born or what? I mean... Debbie, Travis, Kim and now Jill, all vying for his attentions. Razz


I had at least three girls approach me around senior year of high school, and I didn't even recognize the signals until approximately a decade later. My first girlfriend ambushed me approximately the same way Jill did Tuck. (Though Tuck has dated more than I did at his age)
And I caught the eye of a few more girls/women in the first few years I started transitioning. Including one young and attractive single mother.
It's not apparently unreasonable, but I cannot explain it. =)


Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4980] Mon, 05 February 2007 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
criss
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It seemed like Tuck was a little distracted during and after sex with Jill. He thought about sex with Travis afterwards. And that maybe sex was just a comfort thing for both of them. For Tuck, it has been a stressful time and there has been no Travis or anyone to comfort him and with Jill, it seemed like there was more to the friendship with Kim than what is portrayed. Confused I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm a newbie. Or maybe just because I really really like Travis. I think that Jill and Tuck hav the type of friendship where sex wouldn't really change the way they interact and feel about each other. But that's just my opinion. I'm kind of biased.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4981] Mon, 05 February 2007 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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It's called hormones. Very Happy Kids experiment with sex at that age and Tuck is sort of safe looking which has one kind of appeal.

- Erin
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4984] Mon, 05 February 2007 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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One of the first things I thought about: The parentals can't complain if it's happening at his/their house...

Probably more later -- I want to read over the Debbie section again.

(Fresh cookies for trick-or-treat? Talk about a bygone era. These days, every parent would be asking what they were laced with: rat poison? marijuana? LSD? wheat germ? No way they let their kids eat them, anyway.)

Eric
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4986] Tue, 06 February 2007 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Others have covered most of the good stuff, But I just about *died* when Tuck started thinking about the oxygen rig.

Geekity-geek GEEK!

The stuff with Jill is not a surprise except for how far and how fast. There were hints and we've all thought about it. It's just that this time Ellen actually *did* something many of us had expected.

I have no idea if Jill & Tuck (or Val) will become an item. But they do have a lot of gender confusion in common.

Unlikely but possible future development is some overt abuse to Jill at home. Enough to let others get her out of there.

Sarah would certainly be for helping Jill. And Susan's room *is* empty.

Teaching Jill to shoot may not be a good idea. She might shoot her dad or brothers.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4987] Tue, 06 February 2007 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Brooke wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 21:14


The stuff with Jill is not a surprise except for how far and how fast. There were hints and we've all thought about it. It's just that this time Ellen actually *did* something many of us had expected.


I was thinking something along those lines, myself. I've gotten so used to Ellen doing the inobvious that her following up on the obvious setup in genuinely suprising. Nice touch. Smile
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4989] Tue, 06 February 2007 10:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 05:14

And Susan's room *is* empty.

Uh, no... it's still full of Susan's cra^H^H^Hstuff. Remember Tuck grabbing a dress for Kelly out of her closet?


Ellen
nosig

Re: Tuck 125 [message #4990] Tue, 06 February 2007 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Brooke wrote on Mon, 05 February 2007 21:14

The stuff with Jill is not a surprise except for how far and how fast. There were hints and we've all thought about it. It's just that this time Ellen actually *did* something many of us had expected.

OtherEric wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 05:59

I was thinking something along those lines, myself. I've gotten so used to Ellen doing the inobvious that her following up on the obvious setup in genuinely suprising. Nice touch. Smile

So, in other words, I did something so obvious, that you weren't expecting it. Therefore, it wasn't obvious, wazzit?

HAH!

As a writer, one has to take these little triumphs wherever found...


Ellen
nosig

Re: Tuck 125 [message #4991] Tue, 06 February 2007 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 07:11

As a writer, one has to take these little triumphs wherever found...


Actually, I would count it as at least a mid-range triumph. Making the readers not expect the obvious, without just being random, is genuinely impressive.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4993] Tue, 06 February 2007 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 07:07

Brooke wrote on Tue, 06 February 2007 05:14

And Susan's room *is* empty.

Uh, no... it's still full of Susan's cra^H^H^Hstuff. Remember Tuck grabbing a dress for Kelly out of her closet?


I meant "empty" in the sense of "untenanted".

Besides, if it did come to that, I expect that Susan's room would be Jill's room for "official" purposes. She could actually bunk (literally) in Tuck's room.

Not implying that they'd be having sex frequently. But the Tuck/Jill (or Val/Jill) relationship strikes me as the least likely to end badly.

It may *end*, but I suspect it would be rather like the way I "broke up" with my old SO. We just agreed that the sex thing wasn't working. Still friends, still shared rooms (and occasionally beds) at cons.

Of course, even if they stayed friends, the roomie bit might not work out. But it'd be fun to watch them trying to make it work.
Debbie [message #4994] Wed, 07 February 2007 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Karen Page wrote on Sun, 04 February 23:22

On the other side there seems to me a very rapid thawing of the hostilities from Debbie. The things she was asking during the babysitting suggested to me that Debbie wanted to get back with Tuck.

I read the Debbie section again, and still can't see it. The thaw, sure. But Debbie is justifiably proud of her ability to talk her way out of crises, and, given Tuck's attack on her, she'd have seen a real need to do so here. Further pacifying him with the DJ job could only help.

(Two ironies here: the Debbie-Tuck/Val relationship froze out because Tuck physically attacked her (after she struck first); apparently it's thawing because he attacked her again (though he didn't go through with it this time). And of course Tuck's first time sharing a bed with Debbie and his first time alone in one with Jill both happen on a Halloween night.)

Anyway, Debbie probably has to admit to herself that she still has some kind of feeling for Tuck after the hospital incident, and here she can't resist that last comment, "you look really nice in that." But it struck me as more wistful than anything else. (Alternatively, it might have been Debbie's reflection on how things went when she dressed Tuck in that same costume last October.)

Realistically, Tuck's far more dangerous to her now than he was -- or, at least, than she realized he was -- at this time last year. Also, for all the adults that Debbie can dominate or at least meet on equal terms, Sarah Tucker will never be one of them. Further, it's unlikely that Debbie will ever again feel safe at Tuck's house. (This, even though she did get the upper hand over Sarah about Val continuing to babysit.)

How comfortable Debbie will be with a Jill-Tuck relationship is, of course, a different question. It may be relevant that if Jill does go to live at the Tuckers', Debbie would almost certainly conclude that Sarah Tucker approved of the pair being sexually active together, whether or not that's actually true.

Kim figures to be frustrated about this development -- possibly to the point of thinking that Jill, knowing Kim's attraction to Tuck/Val as a potential solution to her problems with guys, is pursuing him/her to get back at Kim for their previous blowup. (And now that I bring it up, can we be sure she isn't?)

It might be that we're in for a Kim-Jill showdown at school next week, with Debbie eventually checking in on Kim's side and Da Boyz taking Jill's. (And Mike doing some squirming.) Alternatively, knowing Kim's poor self-image, this may push Kim into dangerous (probably alcohol-related) behavior -- either potentially self-destructive (like a car accident) or violent (attacking Mike or Tuck or Jill).

(Longshot: A week or so from now at the Tuckers' place, Jill shoots Kim in self-defense; Tuck's been training Jill in the basement. Complications ensue.)

Eric

You read it here first: the Tuck saga ends on October 31, 1998, with Val and Kelly in a heated embrace in Val's bedroom at the Tucker house.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #4995] Wed, 07 February 2007 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Quick questions:

- The pistol target sequence: did Tuck have a used target at home to show Jill, or just describe how he did while showing her a clean one?

- What's the CD-copy thing all about? Just Jill taping some of Tuck's classical stuff? Something to do with Tuck's dance mixes? Or something from Tuck's synthesizer keyboard? (Doesn't seem that the piracy discussion would be relevant in that case, but I thought it was the synth they were talking about.)

- The "non-empty" condom box Tuck doesn't remember: from Debbie's visit all those months back, the one that first got Debbie to urge him to see a doctor about his chest? (Or did Jill or someone plant one there? Doesn't seem logical, since Jill made Tuck look for it and hasn't been there long enough to know where Tuck would search. Not likely to be a parting gift from Amy...)

Eric

Re: Tuck 125 [message #4996] Wed, 07 February 2007 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Eric wrote on Wed, 07 February 2007 09:04

Quick questions:

- The pistol target sequence: did Tuck have a used target at home to show Jill, or just describe how he did while showing her a clean one?


Does it really matter? Tuck was showing Jill how a pistol target looks. The point being that the black section in a pistol target is way larger than the "bulls-eye" (look at the first image on this page) -- that is, hitting the "black zone" is not the same as hitting the "bullseye." Now, my guess is that the target was new; Bill probably buys them in fairly large quantities (cheaper than buying them piecemeal at the range). If they kept used targets as a kind of "trophy," Tuck would likely have a couple in his stuff, instead of having to ask Bill for one.

Quote:

- What's the CD-copy thing all about? Just Jill taping some of Tuck's classical stuff? Something to do with Tuck's dance mixes? Or something from Tuck's synthesizer keyboard? (Doesn't seem that the piracy discussion would be relevant in that case, but I thought it was the synth they were talking about.)


Don't overanalyze it. Tuck wanted to play some music, showed his CD's to Jill, she had never seen CD-Rs and asked about them. The piracy talk comes naturally from that.

Quote:

- The "non-empty" condom box Tuck doesn't remember: from Debbie's visit all those months back, the one that first got Debbie to urge him to see a doctor about his chest? (Or did Jill or someone plant one there? Doesn't seem logical, since Jill made Tuck look for it and hasn't been there long enough to know where Tuck would search. Not likely to be a parting gift from Amy...)


Most likely from the time Tuck was dating Debbie, not necessarily from that specific visit. Tuck would probably have a few "leftovers" from that time. Again, don't overanalyze it, not everything is a conspiracy. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Debbie [message #4997] Wed, 07 February 2007 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Jill has been attracted to Tuck for some time, it needn't have deeper motivations than that but it is true that knowing Kim may be planning some approach to Tuck that got Jill off the dime.

But Kim's attraction to Tuck is purely experimental. Kim is hoping she's a lesbian or at least bisexual because she can't achieve intimacy with a male. She needs more professional help.

I don't think Kim is the sort to get physical in any retaliation, but someone who feels betrayed may attempt a betrayal. Right now, that would be bad short term for Tuck but maybe good long term. Tuck's problems are medical, not moral and really, concealing medical information of this type even from medical professionals has caused untild problems for intersex people like Tuck.

- Erin
Kim/Tuck [message #4998] Wed, 07 February 2007 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
criss
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I think that a possible relationship b/t Tuck/Val and Kim is either not going to happen or be onesided on Kim's part.I just don't see Tuck/Val hooking up or having a fling with someone who hurt Mike. It seems like everyone is forgetting about Mike.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5000] Wed, 07 February 2007 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Also, Kim never struck me as someone Tuck particularly likes. I mean, yes, she's nice, most of the time, and he doesn't *dislike* her, but there's no particular closeness there. If she hadn't dated Mike, Kim wouldn't be any closer to Tuck than, say Sabrina or Pam. I just don't think Tuck finds Kim very interesting.

Sir Lee

[Updated on: Wed, 07 February 2007 20:19]


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5001] Wed, 07 February 2007 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Sir Lee wrote on Wed, 07 February 2007 10:40

Eric wrote on Wed, 07 February 2007 09:04

Quick questions:

- The pistol target sequence: did Tuck have a used target at home to show Jill, or just describe how he did while showing her a clean one?


Does it really matter? Tuck was showing Jill how a pistol target looks. The point being that the black section in a pistol target is way larger than the "bulls-eye" (look at the first image on this page) -- that is, hitting the "black zone" is not the same as hitting the "bullseye." Now, my guess is that the target was new; Bill probably buys them in fairly large quantities (cheaper than buying them piecemeal at the range). If they kept used targets as a kind of "trophy," Tuck would likely have a couple in his stuff, instead of having to ask Bill for one.

Quote:

- What's the CD-copy thing all about? Just Jill taping some of Tuck's classical stuff? Something to do with Tuck's dance mixes? Or something from Tuck's synthesizer keyboard? (Doesn't seem that the piracy discussion would be relevant in that case, but I thought it was the synth they were talking about.)


Don't overanalyze it. Tuck wanted to play some music, showed his CD's to Jill, she had never seen CD-Rs and asked about them. The piracy talk comes naturally from that.

Quote:

- The "non-empty" condom box Tuck doesn't remember: from Debbie's visit all those months back, the one that first got Debbie to urge him to see a doctor about his chest? (Or did Jill or someone plant one there? Doesn't seem logical, since Jill made Tuck look for it and hasn't been there long enough to know where Tuck would search. Not likely to be a parting gift from Amy...)


Most likely from the time Tuck was dating Debbie, not necessarily from that specific visit. Tuck would probably have a few "leftovers" from that time. Again, don't overanalyze it, not everything is a conspiracy. And sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Sir Lee


Thanks. I needed that. (A line from an old television commercial here in the U.S.)

Re the pistol target, as you surmised I hadn't been aware of what it looked like. (When I originally typed the question, I had wondered, because of the "better than me" comment, if the two of them had actually done some target shooting downstairs. But -- among many reasons -- it's only four minutes after Tuck asked for permission, so I eliminated that possibility. Probably should have deleted the question once I got rid of that alternative.)

Eric
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5006] Fri, 09 February 2007 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Well, this chapter is interesting to say the least.

Re: Tuck and Debbie:

I think that their relationship was too intense for it not to have left a certain residuum of concern for each other, not matter how badly it ended.

I think that Debbie's trying to get (back) to a relatively normal
friend/employee relationship with Tuck, not anything romantic. She and Lisa have a relationship that has departed to the scenic byways of sexuality and I don't see her wanting to return.

I think that Debbie's going to feel uneasy in the Tucker house
for quite a while, though.

Re: Debbie and Sarah:

I think that Debbie's justifiably afraid of Sarah, however well
they can work together on a common project.

Re: Sarah's confusion:

During the maelstrom of Val getting busted Tuck was contending that "doing Val" was no big thing and Sarah was contending that it was. Bill thought that both of them were wrong. I think now, as I thought then, that Sarah seems to have some issues over proper gender roles. Discovering Valerie, and then the attack on Tuck seems to have created a large amount of barely-suppressed rage that keeps getting vented on anyone close to her whenever it boils over.

I think that Sarah can use counseling about her issues, and probably some level of medication to keep her on a more even keel.

Re: Jill and Tuck:

Aside from Amy (which relationship is an entirely different type of thing), Jill's the only one who has been interested in Tuck sexually. Debbie and Tuck seem to have had a nonsexual dating relationship until that fateful Halloween and Travis never met Tuck, only Valerie.

Re: Kim:

I really don't know what Kim's recent issues are, possibly being
left out of the ninja stuff that Mike and Da Boyz were doing
after Tuck was attacked (and in which Jill was included, making
the situation worse).





Re: Tuck 125 [message #5007] Fri, 09 February 2007 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Oooo-kay...

mkemp wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:58

I think that Debbie's trying to get (back) to a relatively normal
friend/employee relationship with Tuck, not anything romantic. She and Lisa have a relationship that has departed to the scenic byways of sexuality and I don't see her wanting to return.


Uh, Debbie and Lisa have been together in a sexual way for a LONG time. Since they were twelve, in fact. WAY before Tuck entered the scene. Check 15:38 28 Feb (that's Chapter 16, "Tuck in a Rut") and following entries.


Quote:

Aside from Amy (which relationship is an entirely different type of thing), Jill's the only one who has been interested in Tuck sexually. Debbie and Tuck seem to have had a nonsexual dating relationship until that fateful Halloween and Travis never met Tuck, only Valerie.


Yes, they didn't have sex before that Halloween. So? Not EVERY teen has sex on the first date. Debbie was interested enough to BE dating Tuck, and she has had consensual sex with other guys. The relationship might have evolved to sex without "Valerie's" presence. Or, I concede, it might not. We have no way of knowing, so it's pointless to draw the conclusion that Debbie was not interested in Tuck sexually.

Quote:

I really don't know what Kim's recent issues are, possibly being
left out of the ninja stuff that Mike and Da Boyz were doing
after Tuck was attacked (and in which Jill was included, making
the situation worse).


Kim has a lot of issues. She has a hard time trusting (and touching) guys, she has a drinking problem. It wasn't mentioned explicitly in the saga, but those suggest that she has been raped in the past -- Debbie was, and it has been implied that other Packettes also were. She also has a self-image problem (being a bit on the pudgy side, compounded by her sister being a cheerleader).
And then, she's known to go to lesbian bookstores to buy poetry books. And she has been shown having a hard time remembering that "Valerie" is actually Tuck. Those suggest that she might be a lesbian herself (although some readers think she might just *hope* being a lesbian, given her problems with physical contact with men).

Being left "out of the loop" recently probably angered her and may have helped in triggering the breakup with Mike, but those are not her main issues.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5008] Fri, 09 February 2007 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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lurker wrote on Sun, 04 February 2007 15:35


Mom (Sarah) in therapy cause she's confused? This is going to be good.... Smile

If she thought she was confused before, wait until she finds out about Tuck and Jill...

Unlike Debbie, Lisa and the cheerleaders, I don't believe that Jill has any specific reason (yet) to be scared of Sarah Tucker. Jill's also pragmatic and straight-talking -- probably the most effective combination of the two among the Pack.

Assuming she really does want to move in with the Tuckers, it'd be a really interesting development if while Tuck and Bill are working on a computer somewhere, Jill approaches Sarah and says something to the effect that "I want -- need -- to move in here, but I have to be up front about this to avoid a blow-up later: I'm seducing your son."

Sarah's response is left as an exercise for the reader... Smile

Eric
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5011] Sat, 10 February 2007 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erik  is currently offline Erik
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If Tuck is well enough to go to school is he well enough to cook Sunday? I hope so. All his friends hope so. I'm sure Bill Tucker hopes so. I predict a big dinner with lots of chemistry as everyone gets together.

Erik


You are not paranoid. We really are out to get you.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5012] Sat, 10 February 2007 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 19:57

Oooo-kay...

mkemp wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:58

I think that Debbie's trying to get (back) to a relatively normal
friend/employee relationship with Tuck, not anything romantic. She and Lisa have a relationship that has departed to the scenic byways of sexuality and I don't see her wanting to return.


Uh, Debbie and Lisa have been together in a sexual way for a LONG time. Since they were twelve, in fact. WAY before Tuck entered the scene. Check 15:38 28 Feb (that's Chapter 16, "Tuck in a Rut") and following entries.


I think mkemp is correct, though. The point is that Debbie and Lisa are apparently involved in some form of BDSM relationship, and there's no particular evidence, prior to the post-near-shooting episode, that this was a significant part of their relationship all along.

I'm mildly amused by the idea of Debbie as a top, though. She presents publicly as a dominant, aggressive, imperious personality; the cliche is that such people are always bottoms, in private. Still, Lisa more or less fits the stereotype as well. *shrug*

Certainly when Debbie and Tu-Val were a thing, there wasn't any evidence (as reported by Tuck) that Debbie was into the whole BDSM thing.

And it's true that if you want/need something of the sort to turn your crank, you're not all that likely to be happy with a relationship that doesn't include it.

Amy!
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5013] Sun, 11 February 2007 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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Eric wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 20:01

Assuming she really does want to move in with the Tuckers, it'd be a really interesting development if while Tuck and Bill are working on a computer somewhere, Jill approaches Sarah and says something to the effect that "I want -- need -- to move in here, but I have to be up front about this to avoid a blow-up later: I'm seducing your son."

Or, adding to Sarah's confusion, she might say (as in the mind of all the other pack members),
"I want -- need -- to move in here, but I have to be up front about this to avoid a blow-up later: I'm seducing your daughter." Cool

[Updated on: Sun, 11 February 2007 03:14]

Re: Tuck 125 [message #5015] Sun, 11 February 2007 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Amy! wrote on Sat, 10 February 2007 20:03

Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 19:57

Oooo-kay...

mkemp wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:58

I think that Debbie's trying to get (back) to a relatively normal
friend/employee relationship with Tuck, not anything romantic. She and Lisa have a relationship that has departed to the scenic byways of sexuality and I don't see her wanting to return.


Uh, Debbie and Lisa have been together in a sexual way for a LONG time. Since they were twelve, in fact. WAY before Tuck entered the scene. Check 15:38 28 Feb (that's Chapter 16, "Tuck in a Rut") and following entries.


I think mkemp is correct, though. The point is that Debbie and Lisa are apparently involved in some form of BDSM relationship, and there's no particular evidence, prior to the post-near-shooting episode, that this was a significant part of their relationship all along.

I'm mildly amused by the idea of Debbie as a top, though. She presents publicly as a dominant, aggressive, imperious personality; the cliche is that such people are always bottoms, in private. Still, Lisa more or less fits the stereotype as well. *shrug*

Certainly when Debbie and Tu-Val were a thing, there wasn't any evidence (as reported by Tuck) that Debbie was into the whole BDSM thing.

And it's true that if you want/need something of the sort to turn your crank, you're not all that likely to be happy with a relationship that doesn't include it.

Amy!


Lisa and Debbie could be switches. There are plenty of them out there.

And since the relation with Lisa was still going on while she was dating Tuck, Debbie still had an outlet for her BDSM urges.

For that matter, some aspects of her "forcing" Tuck to be Val could be BDSM on her part.

Re: Tuck 125 [message #5020] Sun, 11 February 2007 23:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Erik wrote on Sat, 10 February 2007 16:25

If Tuck is well enough to go to school is he well enough to cook Sunday? I hope so. All his friends hope so. I'm sure Bill Tucker hopes so. I predict a big dinner with lots of chemistry as everyone gets together.

Tuck must think he's going to cook; if he had any doubt he'd have told Debbie he wasn't planning on it or wasn't sure instead of just hoping she wouldn't come.

Debbie indicated that she expected Kim to be there. If so, as you said, lots of chemistry if/when Jill starts getting possessive around Tuck...

Eric
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5021] Mon, 12 February 2007 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Quote:

Tuck must think he's going to cook; if he had any doubt he'd have told Debbie he wasn't planning on it or wasn't sure instead of just hoping she wouldn't come.


Hmmm, my thought when Debbie mentioned "doing that Sunday thing" was not about him cooking for a lot of people; what came to mind was those breakfasts at the Gay Caf. Although I don't remember if Sabrina used to go to those. I suppose Debbie could be thinking about either of them, BUT most people wouldn't expect someone who is still lugging around an oxygen tank to be up to the task of cooking for twenty people. Unless there's money in it (Tuck is severely short of cash right now). But I don't recall Tuck being paid for those (his parents already contribute the materials and venue...)

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5022] Mon, 12 February 2007 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 12 February 2007 18:17

But I don't recall Tuck being paid for those (his parents already contribute the materials and venue...)


He got the laptop on agreement he would cook Sundays for ... *lookup* Oh dear, he didn't set an expiration date. Oh dear oh dear... he's sure gonna be pissed in forty years when he has to come every Sunday to the Ol' Folks Home to cook for his parents...

In any case, for cooking Sundays for an unspecified future period, helping 'more' with Thanksgiving dinner, and for previous Sundays.
Episode 71. Heh. First episode I checked, too. =-PPPP


Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5023] Mon, 12 February 2007 21:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Mon, 12 February 2007 14:36

He got the laptop on agreement he would cook Sundays for ... *lookup* Oh dear, he didn't set an expiration date. Oh dear oh dear... he's sure gonna be pissed in forty years when he has to come every Sunday to the Ol' Folks Home to cook for his parents...

From Chapt 71, regarding chore wage rates

"You know your chore money is going to about disappear, right?" Dad pointed out.
"Yeah, but, I mean, this way I do get paid to do my homework and cook, and paid better than I get here, ahem." Dad's rate of five dollars an hour was inflexible.

and,
From Chapt 71, regarding laptop cost

"Halfsies?" I suggested. "I pay half you pay half?"

So, I was under the impression that filial indentured servitude for half the price of the laptop was approximately $15 per dinner (@3hrs/meal), and assuming the laptop was originally valued at ~$2000, of which the debt to the parents was $1000, Tuck was in for 1000/15= 67 weekend dinners plus Thanksgiving....
Of course, I wouldn't put it pass Bill to extend the debt by charging interest on the outstanding principle, since at one time, the company I once worked for would charge a network provider like Freehold, market rate interest on equipment lease-purchased in the same way...
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5024] Tue, 13 February 2007 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Morgan  is currently offline Morgan
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Of course, Tuck has a sneaky option that might get him out of
the deal. He could cook more and more expensive meals and, when
they (especially Bill) complain, tell them, "Alright, you fix
Sunday dinner!"

Morgan
___________________
The cook help to make the gluttony.
- Falstaff (II Henry IV, Ace 2, scene 4)
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5025] Wed, 14 February 2007 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Mon, 12 February 2007 14:36

Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 12 February 2007 18:17

But I don't recall Tuck being paid for those (his parents already contribute the materials and venue...)


He got the laptop on agreement he would cook Sundays for ... *lookup* Oh dear, he didn't set an expiration date. Oh dear oh dear... he's sure gonna be pissed in forty years when he has to come every Sunday to the Ol' Folks Home to cook for his parents...

In any case, for cooking Sundays for an unspecified future period, helping 'more' with Thanksgiving dinner, and for previous Sundays.
Episode 71. Heh. First episode I checked, too. =-PPPP


So, he has an easy out. He can just return the laptop. Smile
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5026] Wed, 14 February 2007 18:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Or pay his parents the other half of the price.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5027] Wed, 14 February 2007 19:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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But Ellen's answer is funnier. Laughing

- Erin
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5028] Thu, 15 February 2007 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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True. Slightly off-topic but I kinda wonder what version of Thinkpad Tuck has, mainly because I have a couple of working 755s and 760s.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5029] Thu, 15 February 2007 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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mkemp wrote on Thu, 15 February 2007 14:15

True. Slightly off-topic but I kinda wonder what version of Thinkpad Tuck has, mainly because I have a couple of working 755s and 760s.


I would be inclined to think Bill was anti-Blue and anti-HP (pre Compaq merger) in those days. You were pretty stuck to using the OS they gave you such that if you tried to repartition your machine to run anything else, they'd threaten to cancel your warranty, or at very least, deny any technical support until you restore their standard OS. I'm inclined to believe the Tuckers might have gotten a more generic "build your order brand" (like a Dell or a Gateway) so it would be easier to dink with. OTH, it seems pretty clear that Bill was screwing with the BiOS to customize the system so you never know, he could very well have access to any necessary the proprietary info to mess with the system. Ellen could prove either of us wrong...

BTW, my 760 is on its last legs, not enough memory to adequately handle the current OS requirements, so it's stuck trying to work under NT, slowly killing the drive with infinite memory swapping. Sad
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5031] Fri, 16 February 2007 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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lurker wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 01:03


I would be inclined to think Bill was anti-Blue and anti-HP (pre Compaq merger) in those days. You were pretty stuck to using the OS they gave you such that if you tried to repartition your machine to run anything else, they'd threaten to cancel your warranty, or at very least, deny any technical support until you restore their standard OS. I'm inclined to believe the Tuckers might have gotten a more generic "build your order brand" (like a Dell or a Gateway) so it would be easier to dink with. OTH, it seems pretty clear that Bill was screwing with the BiOS to customize the system so you never know, he could very well have access to any necessary the proprietary info to mess with the system. Ellen could prove either of us wrong...


It IS a Thinkpad. As per Ellen:

Chapter 83, "Tuck Eggs"

***
19:44 24 Aug

"I just can't decide," I sighed, "if I want a Libretto or this Thinkpad, which is a little more normal."
"Um..." Dad said. "Why the Thinkpad?"
"Gotta be Linux compatible, Dad. Duh."
"'Kay... Pick the bigger format."
"Why?"
"Bigger drive. If you're going to run one OS for you and one OS for anyone else like one of your friends who might want to use it, and the school runs Windows... Also, you get more for your money, with the bigger one. And the Libretto 50 doesn't hot-charge batteries, and the 70's not out yet."
"Yeah," I sighed. "The Libretto's so cool, though."
"Save up, get another one next year," he grinned.
"Yeah, as if," I chuckled. "Whatever I pick, plus spare batteries, an extra charger, maybe a car charger, plus cards, plus an external SCSI CD-ROM, plus a case..."
"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon-"
"Shut up, Dad."


Also, Tuck not only hacked the BIOS to include a custom boot-loader, but *opened the casing* to pull out the EPROM. Bill's part was just burning the new replacement EPROM. (Apparently Thinkpads didn't come with a Flash BIOS back then; can anyone confirm or deny?) This means that neither Tuck nor Bill was caring very much for the warranty.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5032] Fri, 16 February 2007 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Hmmm. Partial answer to my own question - Giggle tells me that a Libretto 50 has a 75mHz Pentium CPU and an 810mb hard drive. IBM's Thinkpad Hardware Maintenance Manual tells me that the closest match is a Thinkpad 365X with a Pentium 100, 120 or 133 and hard drives up to 2.1gb. The built-in sound is a Linux-compatible ESS chip rather than the execrable MWave sound/modem thing for which IBM has never released the specs, and AFAIK for which Linux drivers still don't exist.

Thinkpads of this era have the batteries inside the case and are built to be opened for changing them, so that's not a big deal. The 365X doesn't have the easily-swapped hard drive of the later models but removal/installation isn't really difficult.

From what I've been able to determine all the Thinkpads have flash memory, and upgrade BIOSes and the flash software was easily available from the IBM FTP site (since removed but there are several mirrors of the original contents). I took the BIOS EPROM manipulation as legitimate artistic license by Ellen to show just how talented Tuck is with geeky stuff. Razz
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5033] Fri, 16 February 2007 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
maltor  is currently offline maltor
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lurker wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 01:03

snip...
You were pretty stuck to using the OS they gave you such that if you tried to repartition your machine to run anything else, they'd threaten to cancel your warranty, or at very least, deny any technical support until you restore their standard OS. snip...


Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 06:59


Also, Tuck not only hacked the BIOS to include a custom boot-loader, but *opened the casing* to pull out the EPROM. Bill's part was just burning the new replacement EPROM. (Apparently Thinkpads didn't come with a Flash BIOS back then; can anyone confirm or deny?) This means that neither Tuck nor Bill was caring very much for the warranty.

Sir Lee



I used to work at IBM doing phone support for Thinkpads in '94/95 before spending a few years doing internal deskside Thinkpad support/deployment and I can tell you they definately had a Flash BIOS starting from the first Thinkpads in the early 90s.

Also, the bit about OS support is partially true. I was in the group that supported the hardware, and we'd help users no matter what OS they were running. But the OpSys group, which was primarily there to answer how-to questions, only supported users that had problems with the pre-installed OS. Think about it, if you buy a new car from a dealer then immediately take it to a shop across town and replace the engine, who do you think should handle any problems you have with that new engine?

[Updated on: Fri, 16 February 2007 14:00]

Re: Tuck 125 [message #5036] Fri, 16 February 2007 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 03:59

It IS a Thinkpad. As per Ellen:
Chapter 83, "Tuck Eggs"

***
19:44 24 Aug
snip...
"Yeah," I sighed. "The Libretto's so cool, though."
"Save up, get another one next year," he grinned.
"Yeah, as if," I chuckled. "Whatever I pick, plus spare batteries, an extra charger, maybe a car charger, plus cards, plus an external SCSI CD-ROM, plus a case..."



To me, it was never definite that it was the Thinkpad, because of the "Whatever I pick" phrase, but Sir Lee, you may be right. I sort of read Bill's questioning of the Thinkpad as a negative bias, now I realized it was a bias on my part. I also shied away from the Thinkpad because in Tucky Seasons, Tuck was being bribed with a Libretto to go to the Jane Thompson Academy. This implied that Ellen was partial to Librettos. However, nowhere was this explicit for either, so I thought it left it open to any laptop of the period...

Note: Chapter 83 was copyrighted in 2002, Chapter 1 Tucky Seasons 2004. Of course, it doesn't mean that Tuck can't have a Thinkpad in one story and a Libretto in another. (And it makes me wonder what Valerie has in UK in Rachel Greenham's fanfic)...

Ohh! Keeping track of trivia makes my head hurt! (rubbing temples) Sad
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5037] Fri, 16 February 2007 20:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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lurker wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 23:32


To me, it was never definite that it was the Thinkpad, because of the "Whatever I pick" phrase, but Sir Lee, you may be right. I sort of read Bill's questioning of the Thinkpad as a negative bias, now I realized it was a bias on my part. I also shied away from the Thinkpad because in Tucky Seasons, Tuck was being bribed with a Libretto to go to the Jane Thompson Academy. This implied that Ellen was partial to Librettos. However, nowhere was this explicit for either, so I thought it left it open to any laptop of the period...

Note: Chapter 83 was copyrighted in 2002, Chapter 1 Tucky Seasons 2004. Of course, it doesn't mean that Tuck can't have a Thinkpad in one story and a Libretto in another. (And it makes me wonder what Valerie has in UK in Rachel Greenham's fanfic)...

Ohh! Keeping track of trivia makes my head hurt! (rubbing temples) Sad


Well, in "Tuck Squared" (which precedes "The Taken") Valerie (the one who eventually goes to UK) had the Libretto from "Tuck Season." She MIGHT have upgraded since, but I doubt it -- I don't think the Libretto is even one year old, and Valerie had other things in mind, such as designing and implementing ALL the new computer and security stuff for the new Seasons Manor...

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5038] Sat, 17 February 2007 07:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sir Lee wrote on Sat, 17 February 2007 01:58

lurker wrote on Fri, 16 February 2007 23:32


Note: Chapter 83 was copyrighted in 2002, Chapter 1 Tucky Seasons 2004. Of course, it doesn't mean that Tuck can't have a Thinkpad in one story and a Libretto in another. (And it makes me wonder what Valerie has in UK in Rachel Greenham's fanfic)...

Ohh! Keeping track of trivia makes my head hurt! (rubbing temples) Sad


Well, in "Tuck Squared" (which precedes "The Taken") Valerie (the one who eventually goes to UK) had the Libretto from "Tuck Season." She MIGHT have upgraded since, but I doubt it -- I don't think the Libretto is even one year old, and Valerie had other things in mind, such as designing and implementing ALL the new computer and security stuff for the new Seasons Manor...

Sir Lee


She still has the Libretto, as Nathan identifies (the exact model) in chapter 2 of Nathan's Story. Smile It's namechecked a few other places too.


Rachel
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5043] Tue, 20 February 2007 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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More thoughts about Jill needing to move out of her "home" and in with the Tuckers.

It occurred to me last night that besides abuse (or in addition to it) there's one other situation that is likely to come up that could be the last straw.

As Jill is under 18, in a lot of states her ability to "own" her bank account and to sign contracts is iffy at best if her parents decided to get involved.

She's almost got the money for that motorcycle. And the dealer may insist on talking to her father before finalizing the deal.

At this point, the fit hits the shan...

He can likely think of far "better" uses for all that money that Jill has been "hiding" from him. And even if he doesn't get physical, he can likely throw her out if she refuses to turn the money over to him.

Given her age, in the end, when the dust clears, she'd likely be free from his parental authority. But it'd be messy for a while until the legal stuff was fought out, or at least until her step-father was persuaded that it'd be easier on *him* to just let her have such of her stuff as he hadn't already trashed in return for signing off on her emancipation.

But being emancipated requires the ability to support herself which she doesn't *quite* have.

Unless the Tuckers offer her a place to live rent free.

Not fun for anybody involved, but a lot less messy than the "he gets mad, beats her and somebody calls the cops" scenario that was all I could think of to get her out of that mess before. (It also has the advantage that while her stepfather is still going to be considered scum by Tuck and his friends and relatives, he won't be on the "better dead" list that Carlos is on)

[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2007 07:42]

Re: Tuck 125 [message #5044] Tue, 20 February 2007 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Hm. I hadn't got the impression things were quite that bad with Jill's family.

And it's possible they don't need to *get* that bad either. Precedent: My father's second wife's daughter (oh wait, does that make her my stepsister? eep!) had a friend at school who "didn't get on with her mother". I assume that was a fairly big understatement because it got to the point where she wouldn't go back home. Rather than it get into a whole runaway-child situation, the two mothers spoke and agreed informally the girl could move in. She did, and basically stayed with my dad's new family until she finished school.

Point is, the relationship between the child and parent had completely broken down, but it was possible to come to an arrangement entirely informally and amicably (more so than the kids thought possible anyway) and without, as far as I know, any legalities, changes of custody, child-emancipation (no idea if that even exists in this country) etc. People can sort this sort of stuff out.

Having said all that, I'm not really sure where all this speculation about Jill moving in with Tuck started, and I don't see that being seriously on anyone's minds in-story.

In fact, just a few chapters ago I was thinking the next character who would be driven to leave home would be Tuck, hopefully in a more orderly fashion than the previous time he ran away. Since then it seems the parentals are trying a little less hard to drive the runt out of the nest. Maybe someone applied the cluebat to them offstage.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 February 2007 10:08]


Rachel
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5045] Tue, 20 February 2007 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 12:06

Having said all that, I'm not really sure where all this speculation about Jill moving in with Tuck started, and I don't see that being seriously on anyone's minds in-story.


Well, I guess it started by Jill being so reluctant to go home. Even Bill joked if she was applying for a live-in maid job. But I guess that you are right in that, at this point, nobody seems to be taking the idea seriously. Well, Jill might. But we don't KNOW.

Quote:

In fact, just a few chapters ago I was thinking the next character who would be driven to leave home would be Tuck, hopefully in a more orderly fashion than the previous time he ran away. Since then it seems the parentals are trying a little less hard to drive the runt out of the nest. Maybe someone applied the cluebat to them offstage.


I think the "cluebat" came in the form of seeing their child near death. That forced a quick reassessment of priorities.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5047] Tue, 20 February 2007 13:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sir Lee wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 18:05

rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 12:06

In fact, just a few chapters ago I was thinking the next character who would be driven to leave home would be Tuck, hopefully in a more orderly fashion than the previous time he ran away. Since then it seems the parentals are trying a little less hard to drive the runt out of the nest. Maybe someone applied the cluebat to them offstage.


I think the "cluebat" came in the form of seeing their child near death. That forced a quick reassessment of priorities.

Sir Lee


No, Sarah was being an arse considerably later than that.


Rachel
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5048] Tue, 20 February 2007 18:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 20 February 2007 07:06


Point is, the relationship between the child and parent had completely broken down, but it was possible to come to an arrangement entirely informally and amicably (more so than the kids thought possible anyway) and without, as far as I know, any legalities, changes of custody, child-emancipation (no idea if that even exists in this country) etc. People can sort this sort of stuff out.


Yes, *reasonable* people can. From what little we've heard about her step-father, he's not apt to be reasonable about it.


Re: Tuck 125 [message #5059] Sun, 25 February 2007 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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If Ellen wants Jill to move into the Tucker household something having to do with either the money she's saved to buy a motorcycle or the 'cycle itself might be the precipitating incident. Especially if her stepfather and/or stepbrothers are the assholes that Jull descrines them. Possibilites include (in no particular order):
1-Money has to be used for a family emergency, most likely bail or restitution for some drunken episode,
2-Money is removed from her account without her knowledge (minor's account with parents as joint owners?),
3-Motorcycle is taken and destroyed in a fit of drunken exuberance by stepfather or stepbrother, possibly including death or serious trauma to one or two family members, with the surviving family members blaming Jill because it was her motorcycle.

The neatest solution in story terms might be Jill's stepfather takes her mother for a spin and they wind up under a semi. That'll make Jill an orphan and the Tuckers could adopt her or take her in as a foster child. The major flaw in this is the Childrens' Services investigation of the Tucker household, something to which I don't think the Tuckers would leave themselves open. An alternative to fostering/adoption would be for Jill to obtain emancipated minor status and simply go to live with the Tuckers.

At this point, I'm absolutely not going to make any predictions about what happens. Ellen's ability to contrive story twists and turns far outstrips my poor abilities at prognostication, something for which I have the utmost respect.
JIll's Family [message #5060] Sun, 25 February 2007 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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mkemp wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 13:36

The neatest solution in story terms might be Jill's stepfather takes her mother for a spin and they wind up under a semi. That'll make Jill an orphan and the Tuckers could adopt her or take her in as a foster child. The major flaw in this is the Childrens' Services investigation of the Tucker household, something to which I don't think the Tuckers would leave themselves open. An alternative to fostering/adoption would be for Jill to obtain emancipated minor status and simply go to live with the Tuckers.

Without looking back at the story, I'm guessing -- mostly because the stepbrothers are being bailed out of jail rather than some youth incarceration center, and because the context of Jill's comments/thoughts seem more like drunk-and-disorderly than just underage drinking -- that at least one and probably both stepbrothers are over 18 and possibly over 21. I certainly could be wrong about this, but unless either or both of the parents had a will that stated otherwise, I'd speculate that would make the oldest brother head of the household and at least de facto guardian of Jill until she turned 18 or petitioned for emancipation, however unfit he might be to take on that role.

But IMO, offing both of Jill's parents seems way too convenient a development -- the kind of thing that Ellen avoids. (Reminds me a little of the old sitcom My Three Sons, where the story developers moved the neighbor kid into the household by having his parents killed offstage on a foreign archeological expedition or some such.)

Eric
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5062] Mon, 26 February 2007 20:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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One tiny note:

mkemp wrote on Sun, 25 February 2007 16:36

An alternative to fostering/adoption would be for Jill to obtain emancipated minor status and simply go to live with the Tuckers.



Emancipated minor status is not federally regulated; it falls entirely under state laws, and laws differ vastly from state to state. In the case of the Tuck saga, which very likely takes place in southern Ohio, very likely close to the Kentucky border, possibly close-enough to the Indiana border, there are three states to deal with.

I recall looking this up, at some point (partly because I've got some story set in Ohio, so the topic was of interest from multiple directions), but don't recall details. Googling it again, though: http://www.jlc.org/index.php/factsheets/emancipationus

Briefly: most states will grant the status to those who join the military (less so in recent years) and those who marry. Ohio has no statute (so Debbie's status, assuming she and her mother live in Ohio, was established without statutory backing by a judge, probably in a family court of some sort, and probably without contest from her mother). If she lives in Kentucky or Indiana ... same thing, no statute.

What that means, I think, is that obtaining emancipated minor status, for any other character in the saga, would be problematic. They might know about it due to Debbie's status, which makes it more likely; conversely, outside of marriage or joining the marines, there is no "recipe", no set of rules that can be fulfilled and demonstrated to a judge, which makes it quite a bit less likely.

Someone who knows about family law in those three states might be able to say something about the likelihood of obtaining emancipated minor status. But based on the above, it seems to me that it's possible to justify Debbie (mother's a sherriff, husband absent (I think dead, another law officer, line of duty), who didn't contest and probably even supported the petition, and she can demonstrate ridiculous amounts of maturity when needed), but unlikely that any other character can manage it.

Amy!
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5063] Mon, 26 February 2007 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Amy! wrote on Mon, 26 February 2007 22:52

Emancipated minor status is not federally regulated; it falls entirely under state laws, and laws differ vastly from state to state. In the case of the Tuck saga, which very likely takes place in southern Ohio, very likely close to the Kentucky border, possibly close-enough to the Indiana border, there are three states to deal with.


The matter of the location of the story has been debated somewhat at lenght elsewhere. My personal belief, however, is that they are somewhere in east Indiana, close to the border. Main argument involves the lack of mention of DST adjustment and the fact that Tuck's Aunt Trish keeps forgetting the one-hour difference -- unlikely if the difference was permanent, but believable if it happened only when NY was in DST but east Indiana was not. It's only circunstantial, even negative evidence, though; I understand that in the U.S. the clocks are set forward/back at 2 AM, and in both critical days (April 6 and October 26) Tuck wasn't awake at that time. However, Tuck didn't seem to adjust his medicine schedule either...

Quote:

Someone who knows about family law in those three states might be able to say something about the likelihood of obtaining emancipated minor status. But based on the above, it seems to me that it's possible to justify Debbie (mother's a sheriff, husband absent (I think dead, another law officer, line of duty), who didn't contest and probably even supported the petition, and she can demonstrate ridiculous amounts of maturity when needed), but unlikely that any other character can manage it.


Your memory is right, Debbie's dad was also a police officer and died in the line of duty. Chapter 29. And yes, she was emancipated with the consent of her mother -- who's not a sheriff, but a sheriff's deputy, by the way.

Sir Lee

[Updated on: Mon, 26 February 2007 22:29]


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 125 [message #5067] Wed, 28 February 2007 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarkWind  is currently offline DarkWind
Messages: 3
Registered: February 2007
Location: Oregon
Junior Member
my $0.02 on the whole Jill moving in issue.

Jill has been using quite a bit of the same tactics about home as Tuck used about school before the attack. It's very possible that her home life is much worse then we can see form the outside. I would hope that Tuck would pick up on that since he did the same thing about school but with his known blind spots I'm not sure that will happen. Maybe Mike??


On a different note:

I don't think Debbie is trying to get back with Tu-val. I think she is trying to get the friendship back. No real evidence just a feeling there.

I can see a setup like Debbie arguing for Val; Mike for Eugene; and Jill showing the Tucker-Val option (ala Tucker^2)

And knowing how Ellen writes this tale I'll bet I'm wrong on both Laughing
icon1.gif  Re: Tuck 125 [message #5068] Thu, 01 March 2007 18:07 Go to previous message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
Messages: 421
Registered: April 2006
Senior Member
Quote:


And knowing how Ellen writes this tale I'll bet I'm wrong on both


That's one of the reasons that we're such devoted fans.
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