Home » Tuck Talk » Chapter by Chapter » Chapter 129 is up.
Chapter 129 is up. [message #5213] Fri, 22 June 2007 23:54 Go to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Just noticed it.
Only one read-through so far so I don't have any comments yet.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5214] Sat, 23 June 2007 02:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Nice one, funny and quirky. Tuck's friends had some surprises to deal with. Smile

- Erin
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5215] Sat, 23 June 2007 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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A few points:

- Jill didn't mean it seriously about Tuck having potential GF's lined up in cosmetics class, but Ellen made it very clear -- with one a smoker and the other with a crush on a current boyfriend -- that neither Jennie nor Nicole ought to figure in the Tuck story THAT way.

- Tuck's headed for another minor quandary about what he wears to Sheila's office next Sunday: the easiest thing to do will be to wear the same Valerie clothes that he'll be wearing to the Gay Cafe that morning. But Tuck's likely to think that wearing anything Valerie would be giving Sheila the wrong impression.

- As someone pointed out before, it's interesting that Tuck is still convinced that he'd be lectured interminably by his parents if he came home in Pam's church dress. This time, though, he'd have had a shutdown answer, since he could tell them that Sheila had asked him to dress as Valerie, and it's absolutely true that he'd never have been wearing that kind of outfit otherwise.

- Thanks, I guess, to Jill, it sure seems that Tuck would rather cuddle up next to a girl right now (even if it's not Jill) than a guy. Too bad Sheila's not going to know enough about what's going on to point that out: Tuck isn't going to be self-reflective enough to draw any conclusions himself, and I'm not sure that Mike's going to want to sort Tuck out on this issue, even if Mike finds it a positive development.

- TWO "more" voicemails from Amy, in addition to previous ones that Tuck answered by email: sounds as though there's something happening there that's more serious than Tuck is willing to deal with. Is it "just" Amy having found out that she's carrying the defective gene that led to Tuck's condition? That'd be emotionally disconcerting, but not an actual problem until Amy's ready to conceive a child.

- There's apparently something significant happening on Thanksgiving (which is when the Tuckers are due to see Amy again). It's probably not the winter camping trip in New York state, since Tuck placed that in December back when we heard about it, and it's logical that the family would do it on a longer school break than Thanksgiving. But unless I missed something, we don't actually know whether the Thanksgiving weekend celebration is being held at the Tucker house, or in Long Island, or wherever cousin Derek and his mother live, or in upstate New York if Tuck's remaining grandparent still lives up there. The event's still nearly three weeks from now -- November 27-30, I think -- so there's plenty of time for Tuck to catch us up.

Eric
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5216] Sat, 23 June 2007 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Another point... Tuck is "free" again, Kim is around again, and Mike seems to be getting over her -- not TOTALLY over, but enough to be "friends" with her again. There was some speculation in the past about Kim being interested in Tuck. Wonder if she will make her move?

OTOH, things seem to have been slowly taking Tuck full circle around toward Debbie again. Points: he is bothered that Jill thinks him "too girly" -- that was never a problem with Debbie; also, he says the sex is not what he misses about breaking up with Jill, meaning that apparently he did not think it was that great; but he certainly seemed to like sex with Debbie A LOT. But at present, Debbie is still

So... my guess is: Kim will make her move sometime in the next few weeks; they may date for a while, or may not; but when THAT is over (and it WILL be over, I can't see Tuck with Kim long-term), Debbie may have reapproached Tuck enough to go for a second try.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5217] Sat, 23 June 2007 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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It's struck me again in this chapter how much of a medicated child Tuck is. It's not just the treatment for his injuries either. Tuck's been on fairly strong psychoactive medication for months.

Is it a cultural thing that I think this of note?

I've got in my notes that Tuck was put on Sertraline (under the brand name Zoloft) in April (chapter 30). I don't know if Tuck's still taking it in addition to all the new stuff. I don't remember reading that he'd come off it. Coming off stuff like that is tricky enough to be worthy of note (has to be tapered down), but might have been lost in the maelstrom of the aftermath of the assault.

List of side-effects may be interesting in relation to what's been going on, but I don't know if that's just coincidental or if Ellen has some of it in mind. However:

"Until 2003, sertraline was only approved for use in adults ages 18 and over; that year it was approved by the FDA for use in treating children ages 6 to 17 with extreme obsessive compulsive disorder. In December 2003, Britain banned the use of all SSRIs except fluoxetine by minors"

Whoops, but let's let that pass. Maybe someone was feeling parental pressure to medicate... Smile BTW this is also the drug that's been implicated more recently in an increased risk of suicidal behaviour in adolescents. Tuck's doctors couldn't know that though, but of course side-effects discovered since the Tuck timeframe won't necessarily not occur before that...

(Referenced Wikipedia and FDA.)

Oh, and generally, I liked the chapter. Had some chuckles. Some of the fun is back. Smile I suspect some of that is New People.

I did like how Tuck went to a lot of trouble to change back out of valerie-clothes before going home after the session despite, as noted, having a great excuse to do so. Nice little reminder that the sweetness and light at home is masking Unfinished Business.

[Updated on: Sat, 23 June 2007 17:09]


Rachel
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5218] Sat, 23 June 2007 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 02:01

- Tuck's headed for another minor quandary about what he wears to Sheila's office next Sunday: the easiest thing to do will be to wear the same Valerie clothes that he'll be wearing to the Gay Cafe that morning. But Tuck's likely to think that wearing anything Valerie would be giving Sheila the wrong impression.


Ah. but *is* it the wrong impression?

I suspect that other than force of habit, even Tuck isn't sure.

Eric wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 02:01

- As someone pointed out before, it's interesting that Tuck is still convinced that he'd be lectured interminably by his parents if he came home in Pam's church dress. This time, though, he'd have had a shutdown answer, since he could tell them that Sheila had asked him to dress as Valerie, and it's absolutely true that he'd never have been wearing that kind of outfit otherwise.


I get the distinct impression that Tuck really hasn't grasped the fact that while his being val upset the parentals, that's not actually what the punishment was about. It was about the lying and risks.

Assuming that he eventually "gets it", it'll throw him into a bit of a tailspin.

Of course, it'll likely take getting "caught", probably by his mother and her managing to tell him "I don't like it, I'm not comfortable with it. But as long as you are being safe about it, I'm not going to say you can't."

Not that that'll be easy for her.

But I do suspect that if she'll admit it to herself, it *is* not that different than so many of the "more normal" things that Tuck does and she doesn't like.

Eric wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 02:01

- Thanks, I guess, to Jill, it sure seems that Tuck would rather cuddle up next to a girl right now (even if it's not Jill) than a guy. Too bad Sheila's not going to know enough about what's going on to point that out: Tuck isn't going to be self-reflective enough to draw any conclusions himself, and I'm not sure that Mike's going to want to sort Tuck out on this issue, even if Mike finds it a positive development.


I wouldn't go reading too much into it. Tuck wants someone to cuddle with. He probably doesn't want Travis because (whatever the situation actually is) he sees that as over.

I suspect that with all the gay stuff floating around, Mike would be a bit uncomfortable (not that that would stop him from doing it if Tuck was in bad shape). So, that pretty much leaves Jill.

Eric wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 02:01

- TWO "more" voicemails from Amy, in addition to previous ones that Tuck answered by email: sounds as though there's something happening there that's more serious than Tuck is willing to deal with. Is it "just" Amy having found out that she's carrying the defective gene that led to Tuck's condition? That'd be emotionally disconcerting, but not an actual problem until Amy's ready to conceive a child.


It could "merely" be Amy freaking out about Tuck almost *dying*.

Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5219] Sat, 23 June 2007 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 14:04

(talking about Zoloft) BTW this is also the drug that's been implicated more recently in an increased risk of suicidal behaviour in adolescents.


Well, that's not exactly an uncommon side effect of anti-depressants. You see, it's possible to be so depressed that suicide seems like too much effort.

So in that case, as you "get better" you'll pass thru a stage where you are still feeling pretty bad, but now have enough "energy" to actively try suicide.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5220] Sun, 24 June 2007 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rasufelle  is currently offline rasufelle
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I was put on Zoloft for a while in '01, and I was only fourteen at the time. As far as the suicidal side effects, they were bad enough with me that I refused to take the medication, and still refuse antidepressants to this day. It wasn't so much that the medication made it seem better so much as it made me no longer afraid of doing it- it just completely detached me from reality.


I liked this chapter quite a bit. It does seem that Tuck's mood is improving, even with events like Jill's 'break-up'. Also, Tuck has been acting increasingly feminine even when playing the 'boy' since his parents found out about his dressing. I don't think that even Tuck would have been absent minded enough to walk around with multicolor nails if he was worried particularly about his masculinity any more, would he? It seems that short of clothes he slipped into a kind of pseudo-Val mode when out with the girls.


Be happy, be kind, and love yourself for who you are, not who others think you are.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5221] Sun, 24 June 2007 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sat, 23 June 2007 14:04

I've got in my notes that Tuck was put on Sertraline (under the brand name Zoloft) in April (chapter 30). I don't know if Tuck's still taking it in addition to all the new stuff. I don't remember reading that he'd come off it. Coming off stuff like that is tricky enough to be worthy of note (has to be tapered down), but might have been lost in the maelstrom of the aftermath of the assault.

Last mention of it was in August on the camping trip, when Dana Treble mentioned that she'd prescribed it on Sheila's recommendation. (Which, incidentally, probably means that Sheila's not an M.D. and couldn't prescribe it herself. On the other hand, Sheila seemed to have at least quasi-medical equipment around for that blood vow. Beside the point, in any case.)

Anyway, at that time Tuck seemed fine with keeping it going, and if he was still taking it as the stress level kept rising after school started, it'd seem unlikely that he'd have stopped any time before his assault. (On the other hand, his nightmares might have provided a compelling reason to change medications, once Sheila started hearing about them in more detail after Amy left. Perhaps Sheila and/or Doc Treble just didn't get around to it until recently?)

Eric
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5222] Wed, 27 June 2007 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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There's one thing I noticed about this chapter: it seems as if more comments are being reported about Tuck's physiology becoming more feminine - Jill's reaction and Janet remarking that "...under some of the streetlights you look really pretty." The reaction of the counterperson at Wendy's isn't really unexpected at this point.

My feeling is that the result of Tuck's non-decision about things he could attempt to influence his body's changes is arriving. Pretty soon Tuck's going to 'transition' whether he likes it or not, and not liking it will add still another source of stress.

Of course, I could be wrong. Only Ellen knows for sure, so I guess I'll just have to keep waiting for her to tell us.

Oh, and I think Sheila's reaction to Valerie was rather interesting, asking what she wore and why and it seemed as if she accepted the answers without getting into an inquisition about it.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5223] Thu, 28 June 2007 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mthead  is currently offline mthead
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As per mkemp,I also noted that Tuck is being being seen more frequently as female by others in this and previous chapters. He also is accepting it with greater ease. I think that his non-decision is in itself a decision (as is often the case with all of us). I see him as really wanting to be just what he is, whatever that turns out to be, and being accepted. He is not afraid of "being" anything. His only fear is of physical injury (and his mother).

Just as an aside, I sure have a lot of difficulty with the pronoun usage for Tucker now. Much more than I used to have. His friends seem to have a hard time and I guess my perception is situational also. While I was writing this I kept wanting to change the pronoun or do the he/she thing. Has anyone coined a pronoun that would apply?
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5224] Thu, 28 June 2007 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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For quite a while now, I've very delibirately used Tuck rather than a pronoun. Which can lead to some non-optimal sentance costructions, but I find it works better than using a pronoun incorrectly.

Oh, one thing that suprised me about how unbothered Tuck was about the nails at the restaurant. Normally Tuck would react badly to having missed that detail; Tuck is paranoid* about situational awareness even if Tuck is no longer worried about being seen as a girl. Tuck realizing Tuck had forgotten about it should have worried Tuck more. (And there's a perfect example of the poor sentance structure I was talking about Rolling Eyes )

*Yes, I know "paranoid" isn't the right word since people are demonstrably out to get Tuck. But I can't think of a better one right now.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5225] Thu, 28 June 2007 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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"Hinky" is the perfect word to use in place of paranoid there. Smile It means wary or suspicious, in both meanings of suspicious. It can also mean nervous to the point of weirdness, or crazy on one topic. Smile

And I've mostly been avoiding pronouns when talking about Tuck for a couple of years. It can make you hinky after awhile. Smile

- Erin
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5226] Sat, 30 June 2007 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not That Mike  is currently offline Not That Mike
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I would think that the antidepressant/antianxiety drugs that Tuck is on would curtail some of those worries when he discovers that he missed something like painted nails.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5227] Tue, 03 July 2007 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Natalie  is currently offline Natalie
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I agree, it felt like the 'hinky' edge tuck normally has was missing. My guess at the time was that the anti-depressant were having their effect on hi- ... he- ... tuck Razz

About the pronoun, yes when posting I deliberately leave out the him/her pronoun. But I had a long time that I though of tuck as 'her' (say starting at chapter 75) but since the attack I more started to lean to 'him'. Don't know why .... *doing some self analyzing now* .... mhhhh, it might be related to the fact that I feel that tuck is acting less 'girly' since the split up with travis. Tuck is just tuck, doesn't matter if tuck is dressed boy or girl, tucks personality is consistent both ways.

Anyway it was a nice chapter to read, not that much confusion or deep emotional downfalls. Though I do wish tuck could find something against those nightmares (beside sharing the bed with someone). I gives me the creeps thinking that I would have nightmares every night.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5228] Tue, 03 July 2007 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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About question of Tuck acting "girly" or where his behavior falls on the Tuck-Valerie continuum:

Remember the conversation with Kelly(?) about the safety accruing to being part of the herd? And the one with the parents about feeling safer as Valerie than as Tuck? And comments by several female friends accusing Tuck of somehow acting more "girly" when another person takes Tuck as a female?

I think that Tuck may be unconsciously taking on 'protective coloration' by responding in a way that reinforces how others react ("he's a geeky guy" produces Tuck-type behavior, "she's not a bad-looking girl" produces Valerie-type behavior); almost chamelon-like. He's still really Tuck, though.

Of course, I could be totally wrong about this.

[Updated on: Tue, 03 July 2007 23:45]

Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5229] Fri, 06 July 2007 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Natalie  is currently offline Natalie
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What I also found funny to read was the remarks mizz parker is making regarding the postures of val, like sitting ladylike etc. Now that she 'knows' she suddenly feels the need to enforce those little things??? I see it happening to me also and I normally find it terribly funny when gg's do that.
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5230] Fri, 06 July 2007 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Natalie posted:
"What I also found funny to read was the remarks mizz parker is making regarding the postures of val, like sitting ladylike etc. Now that she 'knows' she suddenly feels the need to enforce those little things???"

I think it's part of Miz Parker's acceptance of Valerie, probably something like "If you want to act like a girl you'll act like a well-behaved girl."

Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5235] Mon, 09 July 2007 08:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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mkemp wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 15:38

I think it's part of Miz Parker's acceptance of Valerie, probably something like "If you want to act like a girl you'll act like a well-behaved girl."

That's interesting. I think I mentioned last chapter that I came to an opposite conclusion: that it's a measure of a new-found LACK of acceptance by Beth.

Beth Parker interacted with Val as a girl even after she learned that Val's gender situation was ambiguous. The tech work for Ricky's costume gave Beth second thoughts, but Val's explanation seemed to satisfy her. But then she asked a question (whether Val had to take male-oriented courses in school like her sister did); Val answered that question as Tuck (did he have to take Home Ec) and then interrupted the conversation to phone home. My thought was that leaving Beth briefly after a "Tuck answer" seriously changed Beth's viewpoint.

Since then, we've seen that Beth has been less comfortable with Ricky's "dating" relationship with Val (which would be downright scary to Beth if Val's a guy) and has been correcting her posture. I've taken it as something of a plea on Beth's part: you need to be fully convincing to me as a girl so I can keep dire thoughts (like homosexual attraction and pedophilia) out of my mind.

Of course, Tuck isn't reading it that way -- yet. And if I'm right, the odds seem overwhelming that he's not going to, until it's too late.

I'm expecting something important to happen when Val and the Parkers go bowling this week. (Not that my track record's too good on that; I thought something major would develop with Debbie at the Freaks' Dance.)

Eric
Re: Chapter 129 is up. [message #5237] Mon, 09 July 2007 16:13 Go to previous message
Natalie  is currently offline Natalie
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Eric wrote on Mon, 09 July 2007 05:20

mkemp wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 15:38

I think it's part of Miz Parker's acceptance of Valerie, probably something like "If you want to act like a girl you'll act like a well-behaved girl."

That's interesting. I think I mentioned last chapter that I came to an opposite conclusion: that it's a measure of a new-found LACK of acceptance by Beth.

You got a point there eric, but I'll stick with the simple explanation. I try to not read to much behind things ... otherwise it makes me paranoia and I'll end up like tu-val. Rolling Eyes
Laughing
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