Home » Tuck Talk » Chapter by Chapter » Tuck 140
Tuck 140 [message #5963] Sat, 30 August 2008 17:12 Go to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
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Tuck 140 is out. Can't wait to read it.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5964] Sat, 30 August 2008 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Very enjoyable Tuck. Things are going well for our hero in many ways. Lots of laughs, someone to snuggle and some good food Tuck didn't have to cook.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5965] Sat, 30 August 2008 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Yeah, Tuck didn't cook, but what will his sister do to annoy him? And when does he see his psychiatrist again? I still say that if the jocks were to get word of Tuck's being with all those girls, they'd have a hissy fit.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5966] Sun, 31 August 2008 03:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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On the other hand Bill thought Tuck was wearing breast forms.

And the girl's talking about how panties would fit better is not good news either.

On the other hand, unless McAllen is one of the places that has removed the stall doors on all the toilets in the boys bathrooms, nobody is going to *see* what underwear Tuck is wearing.

And on the gripping hand, plain *black* cotton panties (some of the "heavier weight" ones will not be out of place unless they are examined closely.
If Tuck had testicles, it might have been an easier sell. There's this tendency for one to get trapped in the Y-front of briefs after you've used the opening for it's intended purpose a time or two.

Panties avoid that.

Oh yeah, Bill's mis-observation tells me that Tuck is going to have to break down and start wearing a sports bra or something in the near future.

Hmm. Wonder if Underworks was selling binders back then?
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5967] Sun, 31 August 2008 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 00:37

...
And on the gripping hand, plain *black* cotton panties (some of the "heavier weight" ones will not be out of place unless they are examined closely.
...

Why *black* instead of plain white? And don't they sell mens briefs without the y front? So that even if seen wearing panties he can say they are the flyless type.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5968] Sun, 31 August 2008 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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They do sell men's briefs without a fly, but it still has some seams women's cotton panties don't. It's a shape thing -- the seams are supposedly necessary to create the extra space for the male genitals.

I have seen unisex briefs for sale in the past, though. Maybe those would fit Tuck better than regular briefs.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5969] Sun, 31 August 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Fun and interesting pair of episodes. Thanks, Ellen.

I especially like the sleepovers because, with Kathy's interest, we're able to get an idea of what's happening with Valerie/Eugine's physical changes.

The Tucker household seems to be turning into a center of activity by the Pack, Boyz and their assorted freshthings - dessert cooking classes for guys, the occasional sleepover, Tuck's Sunday feasts.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5970] Sun, 31 August 2008 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Josea wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 07:53

Brooke wrote on Sun, 31 August 2008 00:37

...
And on the gripping hand, plain *black* cotton panties (some of the "heavier weight" ones will not be out of place unless they are examined closely.
...

Why *black* instead of plain white? And don't they sell mens briefs without the y front? So that even if seen wearing panties he can say they are the flyless type.



Even the "heavier" cotton panties in white look like panties. But the black ones look a lot more like guy underwear. (partly because seams aren't as visible)
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5971] Tue, 02 September 2008 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erik  is currently offline Erik
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Tuck is trying to gain weight.
Tuck is 16.
I remember when I was 16 and a lot of girls gained weight; all in the chest.

Erik with a K


You are not paranoid. We really are out to get you.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5972] Tue, 02 September 2008 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Huuh? You remember differently than I do. For most girls, weight gain goes to the back of the bus, first. Smile

- Erin
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5973] Tue, 02 September 2008 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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The question Of tuck wearing a sports bra brings up a question then, How developed is Tuck? Can he wear a sports bra that matches his shirt? Would it be best for him to wear a very lose shirt? What happens when he is outed for wearing the sports bra? Will his parents tell the school about Tuck's unique nature?
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5974] Wed, 03 September 2008 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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stanman wrote on Tue, 02 September 2008 20:04

The question Of tuck wearing a sports bra brings up a question then, How developed is Tuck? Can he wear a sports bra that matches his shirt? Would it be best for him to wear a very lose shirt? What happens when he is outed for wearing the sports bra? Will his parents tell the school about Tuck's unique nature?


He's developed enough that stairs are uncomfortable. And that his dad thought he was wearing forms when he wasn't.

Colored sports bras are harder to find. Black and white are the most common.

Note that wearing a white bra under a shirt that's not *really* opaque is a bad idea. It shows as lighter than your skin. Beige bras are popular for this.

Dobson knows something about Tuck's situation, I don't know how much. That's part of how he got out of PE.

The school board is apt to react badly if they ever find out. The "best" of the likely reactions would be considering him female. That'd go over real well when he started using the girls bathrooms.

Worst would be deciding they can't handle him not fitting the female/female binary and kicking him out (quite legal even now in most places).




Re: Tuck 140 [message #5975] Wed, 03 September 2008 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Kicking Tuck out of school would not be a bad outcome by Tuck's lights. The only reasons Tuck stays in school is because of friends and an innate stubbornness. Smile

- Erin
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5976] Wed, 03 September 2008 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Me, if they were to kick Tuck out, I think that he would pull a major mind f**k on the school. And would his friends withdraw as well? There is the question of his further education too. Would he get a tutor or would his parents teach him? Me, I'd like to see Tuck pull a mind f**k on the students that attacked him.

I wonder if Tuck will ever help Debbie out with her makeup sales again? Will Tuck ever get together with Travis again?
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5977] Wed, 03 September 2008 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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I *think* it has been stated somewhere in the Canon that Tuck has already got everything McAllen has to offer in Science subjects. AND he tested out of ASL, too. He was *banned* from the Computer Labs because he knew more than the teachers. In fact, one of the reasons he got the hairdressing class was because he was running out of available options for extra credits.

Which means that it shouldn't be too hard to finish school by homeschooling.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5978] Wed, 03 September 2008 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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Sir Lee wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 16:19

Which means that it shouldn't be too hard to finish school by homeschooling.


Or, more simply, GED.

Also, it is not necessary to complete high school (senior year) before applying to college. Almost all colleges and universities offer "early admissions" policies. In my experience, those who take the option (including myself, be it noted) are neurotic as hell, in one way or another. That fits. Smile Most colleges want you to complete your junior year, though (they wouldn't let me in after my sophomore year, although I already had credits to transfer from taking classes part time at a local college, in place of "corresponding" high school courses (college freshman english != high school sophomore college-prep english, no matter what the high school teachers and administrators claim ... and tracking me into bonehead english my junior year was really insulting, although it rigidly followed the policy that you couldn't take the college-prep junior courses unless you'd had the college-prep sophomore courses)).

Note that my experiences were before reagan and cronies started gutting the educational system, some twenty years before the events in the tuck saga. I'm pretty sure that early admissions survived, though.

Amy!
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5979] Wed, 03 September 2008 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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If Tuck were to drop out of school, which college would he attend? But will Helen keep Tuck in school? Maybe Dobson has a few connections that tuck can use when he graduates. But we still don't know the test results on everybody yet. Is tuck the only one with the mix up? Could it be passed on through his brother and sister? Or can Tuck have children? And will he want children?
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5980] Thu, 04 September 2008 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 10:16

Kicking Tuck out of school would not be a bad outcome by Tuck's lights. The only reasons Tuck stays in school is because of friends and an innate stubbornness. Smile


Remember, he was *offered* the chance to leave the school. But he won't take iyt as long as any of his friends are there.

So trying to kick him out would be very much not good by his lights (currently)

And what might happen to the idiots on the board....

Especially if someone got hurt and Tuck felt it was because he wasn't there.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5981] Thu, 04 September 2008 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:03

Me, if they were to kick Tuck out, I think that he would pull a major mind f**k on the school. And would his friends withdraw as well? There is the question of his further education too. Would he get a tutor or would his parents teach him? Me, I'd like to see Tuck pull a mind f**k on the students that attacked him.


If it wasn't for needing to avoid those "people" (I use the term *very* loosely) for legal reasons, da Boyz would be doing a lot worse than "mind fucks".

since Tuck survived, they'd survive. But they might need a lot longer that Tuck did in the hospital.

stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 12:03

I wonder if Tuck will ever help Debbie out with her makeup sales again? Will Tuck ever get together with Travis again?


Makeup sales? Unlikely. He's *too* femme now for the old salepitch to be believable.

Travis? Dunno. I've re-reading late September now and the fracture lines in the relationship were starting before the attack.

I doubt they'd get back together as a couple now. It's *possible that they could work things out, but that'd require Tuck to have misread things when Anne answered the door at Travis's place, Anne to have not told Travis it was Valerie, and several other things.

I'd kinda like to see matters resolved. Tuck needs actual closure and to actually know where he stands with Travis and why. Tuck just (as usual) doesn't want to face up to it.

I'fd also *love* to know what Lisa was telling Travis. I doubt she was spreading any misinformation *after* Sarah dragging her and Debbie into Sarah's plans.

But she could have told Travis all sorts of things beforehand.

And one has to wonder about the fate of any messages left on Val's pager after the attack.

Thee are *way* too many things the jerks could have done before they got rid of or sold the pager.

I'm thinking of what I was tempted to do with the text messages when I was in a similar situation. Friend's brother got jailed. His cell had disappeared. She had him on her plan. And we were on the same carrier, So she reported his phone as lost and had the service transferred to one of my "spares" (several folks had the same phone I do, and when they upgraded they gave me the old phones) She transferred it because it was cheaper to keep the service on a phone that wouldn't be used than to terminate service on it.

So as soon as the service transferred I started getting lots of texts for the person who'd swiped the phone (it'd been a week or so before we could get the service transferred).

It was *very* tempting to send replies that'd cause trouble for the thief. Or call and ask a few innocent questions to see if I could get info about them.

Even jocks might decide to call a number that showed up on the pager a bit.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5982] Thu, 04 September 2008 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 19:01

If Tuck were to drop out of school, which college would he attend? But will Helen keep Tuck in school?


Helen? Who's Helen?

stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 19:01

Maybe Dobson has a few connections that tuck can use when he graduates.


Tuck probably doesn't *need* them.

stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 19:01

But we still don't know the test results on everybody yet. Is tuck the only one with the mix up? Could it be passed on through his brother and sister?


All good questions we keep pestering Ellen about.

stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 19:01

Or can Tuck have children? And will he want children?


With the available tech back then, it's really unlikely that he can have children. Be a bit of a pain now.

No testicles, so the only choices are obtaining an egg from that ovary (assuming they are right and it is an ovary) or trying to clone from a body cell.

Obtaining an egg will require surgery. And the odds are god that Tuck is sterile anyway. No viable eggs.

Given how Tuck feels about surgery he'd have to want kids *awfully* badly. He'd also need a sperm donor *and* a female willing to carry the baby. Remember, Tuck doesn't have a uterus and all the other "plumbing" necessary. *just* the ovary and a bit of fallopian tube (I read that section earlier today)

Cloning is not at all likely. And the odds of getting healthy baby are low. Very low given what Tuck's genes are like and the problems with cloning.

And he'd still need a female to carry the kid to term.

If Tuck decides he wants kids badly enough, he's either going to have to adopt, or try the egg harvesting bit.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5983] Thu, 04 September 2008 20:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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I meant will his parents keep him in school or will they tutor Tuck? And if they were to tutor him would he continue in the makeup class? And will he ever take up Home Economics and "learn" about cooking? Or perhaps learn about sewing, i don't think that he knows about sewing.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5984] Fri, 05 September 2008 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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stanman: I think that Tuck mentioned that he knew enough to get out of Home Ick, including sewing.

I just noticed that Bill seemed to be taken aback by how "developed" Valerie is. I wonder if this will have ramifications later - Bill might create enough of a legal identity for Valerie to get a driver's license to alleviate some of the risk associated with Tuck 'cross dressing' (given how Tuck's body is changing I'm not sure the term really applies). How much paper work was required back then (today it seems to be almost as hard to get as a passport)?
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5985] Sat, 06 September 2008 03:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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I wonder just how smart Tuck really is? Could he take tests to see if he could graduate early? If so, would he go to a tech school or perhaps join Nasa? Tuck is so smart that he's dangerous if he gets mad. But knowing Tuck, he's probably do what his Dad does. Iam sure that Bill would be able to use Tuck at work.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5986] Sat, 06 September 2008 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Schol-R-LEA  is currently offline Schol-R-LEA
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Stanman, were confusing Sarah Tucker and Helen Morgendorffer by any chance? If so, I suspect they would both take offense at the comparison...
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5987] Sat, 06 September 2008 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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stanman wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 04:45

I wonder just how smart Tuck really is? Could he take tests to see if he could graduate early? If so, would he go to a tech school or perhaps join Nasa? Tuck is so smart that he's dangerous if he gets mad. But knowing Tuck, he's probably do what his Dad does. Iam sure that Bill would be able to use Tuck at work.


If by "tech school" you mean Berkeley, Stanford or MIT I think you might be right..


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5988] Sat, 06 September 2008 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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mkemp wrote on Fri, 05 September 2008 20:09

I just noticed that Bill seemed to be taken aback by how "developed" Valerie is. I wonder if this will have ramifications later - Bill might create enough of a legal identity for Valerie to get a driver's license to alleviate some of the risk associated with Tuck 'cross dressing' (given how Tuck's body is changing I'm not sure the term really applies). How much paper work was required back then (today it seems to be almost as hard to get as a passport)?


A driver's license, even back then has to be *valid* to be of any use in the sort of situations Bill & Sarah were worried about. That means it has to be in the state database so it'll check out if a cop calls it in.

So that means either a *damn* good job of hacking (probably far more trouble than it's worth, especially considering the fallout if you get caught) or going thru DMV.

To get Tuck a driver's license with an F gender marker, would likely require either a legal change of sex via "correcting" the birth certificate (might actually be possible with out surgery given Tucks weird biology)or going thru the hoops for starting the RLT via Shiela or some other therapist.

Both have the problem of losing the valid *male* ID.

Mind you, I've heard of a IS person in Ohio back in the early 80s who'd supposedly managed to use medical records and the like to argue DMV into an "O" sex marker on their license.

No idea if it was true or not. But they did claim that the downside was having the cops run the license and wait for confirmation *every single time* they got stopped for anything.

Usually took 10-15 minutes before they'd be satisfied.

With the sort of databases likely to be used now, I doubt that *could* be done unless a law (or court decision) mandated that they allow for non-binary genders.

97 is apt to be just as bad regarding the computers.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5989] Sat, 06 September 2008 09:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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brooke: I was wondering what documentation they could fudge in order to go through the DMV and have the license come back as valid, and how much checking the DMV did back then.

I've seen references to obtaining a copy of the birth certificate for a kid who died in infancy because the Keepers of Records (whatever the name is) didn't always match birth and death records in the past. As for the mismatch in names they might be able to do a song and dance: "Oh, she was staying with us while my sister-in-law went off to do missionary work in New Guinea. We haven't heard from Gladys in five years so we can't legally adopt her yet. I really hope that the stories about cannibals are far-fetched."
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5990] Sat, 06 September 2008 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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In California, getting gender changed on a DL used to require only a note from an MD (psychiatrist), saying that a person should be considered legally female for medical reasons.

I also know one person who went down to the DMV en femme with doctor's note and never had to show it because she was so convincing the DMV just assumed a previous mistake had been made and needed correcting. Smile

Hugs,
Erin
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5991] Sat, 06 September 2008 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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But I think that Tuck takes place in the North East, not in California.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5992] Sun, 07 September 2008 01:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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mkemp wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 06:17

brooke: I was wondering what documentation they could fudge in order to go through the DMV and have the license come back as valid, and how much checking the DMV did back then.


I'm trying to think back to when I got ID renewals here in Oregon back then (I didn't get my first driver's license until later than Tuck's time).

I think in most places you needed (even back then) proof of address. A utility bill would do for that. Or if you didn't have that, an "official" document sent to you at that address (mailed school reports would do). I think I used a bank statement.

You needed proof of age. Birth certificate or else it gets messy. Passport, maybe a social security card.

Proof of citizenship. Again birth certificate, passport, SS card.

At Tucks age parents can be used in place of a lot of documentation.

Thing is, what he'd need is *duplicate* licenses. Which is harder to pull off, and riskier to have.

And since hre has his own car, there's a problem in that he *has* to have the two identities linked in that the car can only be registered to one of them, and both need to be on the insurance.

mkemp wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 06:17

I've seen references to obtaining a copy of the birth certificate for a kid who died in infancy because the Keepers of Records (whatever the name is) didn't always match birth and death records in the past. As for the mismatch in names they might be able to do a song and dance: "Oh, she was staying with us while my sister-in-law went off to do missionary work in New Guinea. We haven't heard from Gladys in five years so we can't legally adopt her yet. I really hope that the stories about cannibals are far-fetched."


There was no reason (and still isn't much of one) to cross check requests for birth certificates against death certificates. Heck, in most places it's not even *possible*.

After all, if I'd died at (say) age 4, that would have been recorded in a state over a thousand miles from the one where I was born.

What they do *now* is pay a bit more attention to who is requesting a copy. You need the request notarized, which means you need to have your ID pretty well established already.

That's a fairly recent thing. A few years back when I first started getting ready to replace my birth certificate (which had wandered off many moves ago) I just needed to fill out the online form, print it and mail it with some money. Last year, they started wanting more details (some of which I didn't have until I found my copy the probate papers for mom's estate) and the "notarized" stuff.

Heck, I know that at one time (mid to late 60s) even military dependent ID didn't do a lot of checking. Let's just say I know someone whose mother lied about his birth date so he could get it so she could keep taking him to the BX and commissary with her.)
Documentation [message #5993] Sun, 07 September 2008 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Easiest thing would probably be for Tuck to request a duplicate of Susan's driver's license. No problem coming up with documentation there, and even if they use her old picture (as they presumably will), they look similar enough that it likely wouldn't be a problem.

(I met someone in college years ago who was using a duplicate of his brother's driver's license to buy liquor. (Actually, it was the original -- his brother had declared it lost and gotten a new one.) The picture looked just like him, though the license description -- 6-feet-4, 240, for a guy who was about 5-10, 185 -- was a giveaway if anyone looked closely.)

Eric
Re: Tuck 140 [message #5994] Sun, 07 September 2008 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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I wasn't thinking about getting the gender changed on Eugene's driver's license; I was thinking about a separate and valid license for Valerie so there'd be one to match Tuck's appearance.

Note that this wouldn't really stand up to close inspection, just be good enough for traffic tickets, possible accidents and the ubiquitous 'routine traffic stops.'

Accidents? Hmm; may need some more supporting dox: registration and car insurance, at least. A matching health insurance card might not be useful because the masquerade won't hold up in the ER.

About Tuck not going to McAllen: the choices seem to be home schooling, go to a local junior college, or a separate tech school associated with the school system. I'm attending such a tech school now, mainly filled with HS students but with a leavening of adults (I'm doing Web Design. You can see some of my stuff at http://enthusiasts.dyn-o-saur.com, hosted on one of my home servers. It's fairly basic so far, but I'm working on it.)
Valerie ID [message #5997] Mon, 08 September 2008 03:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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mkemp wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 09:47

I wasn't thinking about getting the gender changed on Eugene's driver's license; I was thinking about a separate and valid license for Valerie so there'd be one to match Tuck's appearance.

Tuck, of course, argued when the issue first came up that he'd gone without official ID until he got his license and there was no reason (other than a traffic stop) that Valerie couldn't do the same. Accordingly, he presumably considers it such a low priority that he hasn't bothered to create or forge something on his own computer equipment -- not even a Starfleet document like the one he produced for James T. Cooper. (Though the reaction of a police officer presented with that particular form of ID is left to the imagination of the reader.)

But one of the jokers in this particular deck is that there's almost certainly a document that gives Valerie Tucker permission to authorize medical procedures for Ricky and Stella Parker in the event of an emergency, signed by one or both of the Parker adults. (We were introduced to such a form way back last January when Valerie took her first D&E sitting job for another family.) If that ever had to be acted upon, some sort of Valerie ID (even if it's just a gimmicked photocopy, laminated, of Tuck's own license, without a real magnetic strip on the back) could prove very important -- maybe even a life-and-death matter. (On the other hand, Debbie managed to take control of Tuck's own medical emergency service using nothing more than a wedding band and an insurance card palmed to her by Mike.)

Eric
Re: Valerie ID [message #6000] Mon, 08 September 2008 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Eric wrote on Mon, 08 September 2008 00:22

But one of the jokers in this particular deck is that there's almost certainly a document that gives Valerie Tucker permission to authorize medical procedures for Ricky and Stella Parker in the event of an emergency, signed by one or both of the Parker adults.
Eric

Most probably the way the contract with the Parkers is structured is that anyone employed by D&E is authorized. Otherwise last minute substition due to illness by Valerie would be impractical.

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6043] Thu, 09 October 2008 19:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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stanman wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 20:03

Me, if they were to kick Tuck out, I think that he would pull a major mind f**k on the school.


If they were to kick him out I don't think there would be much of a school to speak of before too long. I get the impression that Tuck’s friends and family can get a little vindictive. Twisted Evil

And Bill is basically responsible for all their technology...

Sir Lee wrote on Wed, 03 September 2008 21:19

I *think* it has been stated somewhere in the Canon that Tuck has already got everything McAllen has to offer in Science subjects. AND he tested out of ASL, too. He was *banned* from the Computer Labs because he knew more than the teachers. In fact, one of the reasons he got the hairdressing class was because he was running out of available options for extra credits.

Which means that it shouldn't be too hard to finish school by homeschooling.


I think that was stated at least twice, once before and after he started Cosmetology Class.

stanman wrote on Sat, 06 September 2008 08:45

I wonder just how smart Tuck really is? Could he take tests to see if he could graduate early? If so, would he go to a tech school or perhaps join Nasa? Tuck is so smart that he's dangerous if he gets mad. But knowing Tuck, he's probably do what his Dad does. Iam sure that Bill would be able to use Tuck at work.


It depends... he's not so great in English but is already at College (?) level in Math and they weren't smart enough to teach him anything computer related (or rather not aware enough to notice when he was causing trouble).

Tuck has always wanted to be like his dad -- a lazy self employed bum. Razz

stanman wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 03:50

But I think that Tuck takes place in the North East, not in California.


In or near Warren County Ohio probably.


mkemp wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 17:47

I wasn't thinking about getting the gender changed on Eugene's driver's license; I was thinking about a separate and valid license for Valerie so there'd be one to match Tuck's appearance.


Does it actually matter what clothes he's wearing if he gets pulled over? And what are they going to do? Arrest him for having boobs?


I think we are all missing the most important question raised by chapter 140: What is the pun about? Laughing All I could come up with was Deck of Many Things. That’s a bigger leap than we usually see in the title puns and doesn’t make a lot of sense either.

[Updated on: Thu, 09 October 2008 19:07]

icon14.gif  Re: Tuck 140 [message #6045] Thu, 09 October 2008 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Well, Smile when Tuck goes to college, Cool [which ever one he chooses] Cool I can see him doing a Very Happy "REVENGE OF THE NERDS" Twisted Evil especially if he has Mike and Debbie there too. Laughing Because I can see some jock trying to humiliate Tuck so that he can have Valerie all to himself. Surprised Now if Travis was at the college, Laughing all the more fun. Razz
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6046] Fri, 10 October 2008 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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"The time has come the walrus said, to talk of many things." Lewis Carroll.

I thought Ellen quoted it at the bottom of the story. Smile

And welcome!

Hugs,
Erin
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6047] Fri, 10 October 2008 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Gespenst wrote on Thu, 09 October 2008 16:04

mkemp wrote on Sun, 07 September 2008 17:47

I wasn't thinking about getting the gender changed on Eugene's driver's license; I was thinking about a separate and valid license for Valerie so there'd be one to match Tuck's appearance.


Does it actually matter what clothes he's wearing if he gets pulled over? And what are they going to do? Arrest him for having boobs?


Trust me, a cop can *always* find an excuse to arrest you.

And in a lot of places, especially the midwest in 1997, the very *least* they'll try is claiming that she is using someone else's license.

And being stopped by a homophobic cop while cross-dresed can get really bad really fast.

There are a *lot* of cases of abuse by cops.

And if they fake up a reason to arrest Tuck while he's dressed as Valerie, they *would* toss him in a holding cell full of *men*. *After* a strip search and putting him into one of those jail jumpsuits.

Gays (and that's what the average cop would think he was) and trans folks have been *deliberately* set up by guards to be raped.

Being stopped while cross-dressed is a bad thing unless you live in a tolerant area.

BTW, in all but a few places, even now, the rules amount to "if the prisoner has a penis, it's a man". At *best* in those places a pre-op TS will get put in isolation.

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6048] Fri, 10 October 2008 07:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gespenst  is currently offline Gespenst
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 06:36

"The time has come the walrus said, to talk of many things." Lewis Carroll.

I thought Ellen quoted it at the bottom of the story. Smile


Oh! She did. It must have completely slipped my mind. Sorry. Embarassed

Erin Halfelven wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 06:36


And welcome!

Hugs,
Erin


Thank you! Smile

Brooke wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:24



Trust me, a cop can *always* find an excuse to arrest you.


Oh... perhaps I should have said "It shouldn't matter what Tuck is wearing". Sad

Brooke wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:24



And in a lot of places, especially the midwest in 1997, the very *least* they'll try is claiming that she is using someone else's license.


Which he wouldn't be... he's still the same person right? Clothes are just clothes... unless he actaully wants to become female, legally, at a later date... I'm not making much sense. Rolling Eyes

Brooke wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:24


And being stopped by a homophobic cop while cross-dresed can get really bad really fast.

There are a *lot* of cases of abuse by cops.

And if they fake up a reason to arrest Tuck while he's dressed as Valerie, they *would* toss him in a holding cell full of *men*. *After* a strip search and putting him into one of those jail jumpsuits.

Gays (and that's what the average cop would think he was) and trans folks have been *deliberately* set up by guards to be raped.

Being stopped while cross-dressed is a bad thing unless you live in a tolerant area.


That's horrible. I thought that Police were supposed to be the good guys... even if they hate you (which is why I said "good" not "nice")

Like that Police officer in Tuck 107:

Quote:

He wasn't sure how he felt about the little kid in the hospital. It was obvious that he was queer as a three-dollar bill, and that always bugged him. On the other hand, it was one thing not to invite a little queer kid to after-game parties; it was another thing entirely to beat him so bad he ended up in surgery. This was America; if you didn't like someone else's lifestyle, you just didn't associate with them. And he was definitely professional enough to deal with the kid on a 'work' basis.



Brooke wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:24



BTW, in all but a few places, even now, the rules amount to "if the prisoner has a penis, it's a man". At *best* in those places a pre-op TS will get put in isolation.




That's got to at least be a case of negligence there... Even putting someone like Tuck in the women cell could be risky as chapter 104 will attest.

If we were simply talking about body parts then Tuck has more female bodyparts than male

1 Penis
0 Testies

vs

1 Ovary
2 Breasts
0 Uteruses

1:3 Male:Female
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6049] Fri, 10 October 2008 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 08:25


Brooke wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 07:24



And in a lot of places, especially the midwest in 1997, the very *least* they'll try is claiming that she is using someone else's license.


Which he wouldn't be... he's still the same person right? Clothes are just clothes... unless he actaully wants to become female, legally, at a later date... I'm not making much sense. Rolling Eyes


It doesn't matter. If the cop *wants* to make life hard for Tuck out of personal bigotry, he will arrest him on *suspicion* of using someone else's license.

Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 08:25



Like that Police officer in Tuck 107:

Quote:

He wasn't sure how he felt about the little kid in the hospital. It was obvious that he was queer as a three-dollar bill, and that always bugged him. On the other hand, it was one thing not to invite a little queer kid to after-game parties; it was another thing entirely to beat him so bad he ended up in surgery. This was America; if you didn't like someone else's lifestyle, you just didn't associate with them. And he was definitely professional enough to deal with the kid on a 'work' basis.




That's one cop. One individual. Who might be among the most *tolerant* in the force. And, if you go back to check, that guy was a detective (search for "Stratton"), not a beat cop. Detectives are at least supposed to be a bit better at this -- if I recall correctly police practices in the U.S., in most (all?) jurisdictions a detective has to have a college degree and a few years experience.


Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 08:25


If we were simply talking about body parts then Tuck has more female bodyparts than male

1 Penis
0 Testies

vs

1 Ovary
2 Breasts
0 Uteruses

1:3 Male:Female


Yes, but: breasts are secondary features, not primary, and breast growth and breast-like features ("man tits") occur in some percentage of males, even discounting the ones who are trying to become more feminine. The cops have no way to know about the ovary (it took an MRI to find out about it). Tuck doesn't have a vagina. So, the only visible primary sexual organ is the penis. As above, if they *want* to be assholes, all they have to do is go by the kindergarten definition of "male".

[Updated on: Fri, 10 October 2008 08:13]


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6050] Fri, 10 October 2008 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gespenst  is currently offline Gespenst
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Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11



It doesn't matter. If the cop *wants* to make life hard for Tuck out of personal bigotry, he will arrest him on *suspicion* of using someone else's license.

. . .

That's one cop. One individual. Who might be among the most *tolerant* in the force. And, if you go back to check, that guy was a detective (search for "Stratton"), not a beat cop. Detectives are at least supposed to be a bit better at this -- if I recall correctly police practices in the U.S., in most (all?) jurisdictions a detective has to have a college degree and a few years experience.


I wasn't saying that it was a probable scenario, I wasn't saying that the cops of 1997 would be all understanding and stuff, just that they should not use the law to exercise their own bigotry. Even though they probably would. They certainly shouldn't break the law to do it and throwing someone who is likely to get beaten up in with the people who are most likely to do it is so reckless as to be negligent.


Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11


Yes, but: breasts are secondary features, not primary, and breast growth and breast-like features ("man tits") occur in some percentage of males, even discounting the ones who are trying to become more feminine. The cops have no way to know about the ovary (it took an MRI to find out about it).


The lack of testes, a primary and visible sexual feature, would lend credence to his story.

Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11



Tuck doesn't have a vagina. So, the only visible primary sexual organ is the penis. As above, if they *want* to be assholes, all they have to do is go by the kindergarten definition of "male".


That is, of course, where the whole hypothetical scenario falls down:

1. Your license says "male" but you look like a female!
2. I'm arresting you for using a false/stolen/something license.
3. You have a penis therefore are male.
4. *thrown in with the male prisoners*

Calling him male would ruin their entire arrest.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 October 2008 14:03]

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6051] Fri, 10 October 2008 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:49

That is, of course, where the whole hypothetical scenario falls down:

1. Your license says "male" but you look like a female!
2. I'm arresting you for using a false/stolen/something license.
3. You have a penis therefore are male.
4. *thrown in with the male prisoners*

Calling him male would ruin their entire arrest.


Yes, it might. OTOH, Tuck getting more female-looking also might mean (we would need Word of God on this) he looks less and less like his ID picture. I mean, his driver's license is what, seven months old? If he looks fairly different from the picture, the cop could honestly suspect that it's not actually HIS picture. Considering that he also looks younger, one could infer that it's a case of "Eugene's younger gay brother driving with a borrowed license."


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6052] Sat, 11 October 2008 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 09:49

Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11



It doesn't matter. If the cop *wants* to make life hard for Tuck out of personal bigotry, he will arrest him on *suspicion* of using someone else's license.

. . .

That's one cop. One individual. Who might be among the most *tolerant* in the force. And, if you go back to check, that guy was a detective (search for "Stratton"), not a beat cop. Detectives are at least supposed to be a bit better at this -- if I recall correctly police practices in the U.S., in most (all?) jurisdictions a detective has to have a college degree and a few years experience.


I wasn't saying that it was a probable scenario, I wasn't saying that the cops of 1997 would be all understanding and stuff, just that they should not use the law to exercise their own bigotry. Even though they probably would. They certainly shouldn't break the law to do it and throwing someone who is likely to get beaten up in with the people who are most likely to do it is so reckless as to be negligent.


At no point is the law being *broken* in such a scenario. At worst, it's being bent.

All that it would take is the cop asking her Name (which will almost certainly get a "Valerie Tucker" response) and then asking for her license.

Or, if Tuck remembers that it's a really bad idea to lie to cops, and answers "Eugene Tucker", then the license matches but the appearance doesn't. And yes, being crossdressed could be considered sufficiently suspicious to run someone in.

It wouldn't be *enough* to convict Tuck of anything, but the standards for hauling you in are a *lot* looser.

For that matter there are still places where there are old laws on the books that make men wearing Women's clothing illegal (they used to make it illegal for either sex to crossdress, but that got dealt with 50 or so years back).

[quote title=Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 09:49]
Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11


Yes, but: breasts are secondary features, not primary, and breast growth and breast-like features ("man tits") occur in some percentage of males, even discounting the ones who are trying to become more feminine. The cops have no way to know about the ovary (it took an MRI to find out about it).


The lack of testes, a primary and visible sexual feature, would lend credence to his story.[/quote[

They not only *aren't* going to look that closely, they could get in legal trouble if they *tried*. They can pat you down for weapons. At the jail they can do a strip search. And even a body cavity search (check mouth, vagina and rectum) for hidden drugs or whatever.

They can't go groping for your balls.

Given the prevalence (even back then) of hookers who are TG, they'd just se the penis and treat Tuck like they would one of those. BTW, the folks processing Tuck at the jail wouldn't know the charges unless it was something that someone in booking thought was relevant to pass on.

Oh yeah, it's a damned if you do/damned if you don't situation. If they believe the ID, Tuck is male and *must* go into the male part of the jail. That's even done to post-op TSes whose ID still says male in a lot of places.

But Tuck has a penis. So...

[quote title=Gespenst wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 09:49]
Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 10 October 2008 13:11



Tuck doesn't have a vagina. So, the only visible primary sexual organ is the penis. As above, if they *want* to be assholes, all they have to do is go by the kindergarten definition of "male".


That is, of course, where the whole hypothetical scenario falls down:

1. Your license says "male" but you look like a female!
2. I'm arresting you for using a false/stolen/something license.
3. You have a penis therefore are male.
4. *thrown in with the male prisoners*

Calling him male would ruin their entire arrest.[/quote]

The arrest is for lying to an officer (if he says he's Valerie) or for something else if he tells the truth. The something else could be false ID, or even suspicion of prostitution (yes, being crossed dressed in the wrong part of town is the TG equivalent of "driving while black").

The officer can't ask Tuck to prove he's male. And if Tuck was dumb enough to try, he'd get arrested for indecent exposure.

But when you get sent to the jail, especially if it's suspicion of false ID, they are going to go by what they see and aren't interested in the charges unless those give some reason to isolate you.

So, depending on the size of the city and other things, Tuck would likely get thrown into a holding cell. *After* being searched. At which point his being "male" would be "established" as far as the officers there are concerned.

He might get his phone call then or before. If he's a "freak" odds are lower. If the department is good about keeping officers in line, odds are higher.

In the holding cell the cops are "supposed" to be keeping an eye on things. But it's *amazing* how often something comes up and they step out "just for a minute" when there's someone in there that they think needs to be taken down a peg. And the other prisoners will know it. At least the experienced ones.

Not normal. Not even standard. But it happens *way* too often.

There's a notorious case where a fast food place's manager beat up on a TS. And the cops threw *her* in jail. In NYC, no less.
(She was a diabetic and had been trying to use the bathroom to give herself her insulin shot)

Where I live, the cops are pretty good. They actually get training about TV/TG/TS folks and about kinky folks as well. They also give talks on what to do and not do when interacting with the police.

But in a lot of places...

I know of someone in Indiana who got beaten and raped by several male relatives to "teach him(her!) a lesson). Another (female) relative knew that something was planned and hid in the bushes (she thought it was going to be more along the lines of a prank). She had a video cam. She was too scared to try go for help while it was happening, but she did tape things.

The cops wanted to write it off as "domestic abuse" or a "fair fight". Even when confronted with the video, it took a lot of pushing. I think the DA had to get his nose rubbed in it.

And this was earlier this year.

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6053] Sat, 11 October 2008 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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A more pleasant scenario that still would cause Tuck and others some problems:

Val is driving somewhere and gets pulled over by Debbie's mother. Maybe he missed a sign and she's gotta write him a ticket. Or maybe there's an accident and it's not Tuck's fault.

So she needs to see Val's license...

She will not be amused. At least not immediately.

And Debbie may get a lecture. On the other hand, given that Debbie is emancipated, and certain other things (like what she told Bill when he wanted to complain about Debbie) it may just be a matter of being really annoyed.

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6054] Mon, 13 October 2008 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Well, in any scenario where Tuck is thrown into jail and assaulted, we know that his parents will go to war!!! Tuck being asthmatic and healing up from broken ribs would force the police to severely punish those that let it happen. And Bill would corrupt the computers of the offenders. No doubt that Mike and Debbie will pull a mind fuck too.
Re: Tuck 140 [message #6055] Tue, 14 October 2008 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
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When Tuck was ambushed in the restroom he was depressed and under a lot of stress and out numbered. He did manage to inflict a blow to one assailent which caused bleeding and Tuck said he missed (if I remember correctly). In other fights in the story he proved to be potentially dangerous. If thrown in jail with some bully, he will probably not be able to sleep and if attacted he might be too scared to use restrain. Tuck will certainly be very alert.

Since he is still recovering he will try to make sure any fight ends as quickly as possible.


[Updated on: Tue, 14 October 2008 13:12]

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6056] Wed, 15 October 2008 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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I wonder when Ellen will post a new Tuck Chapter? And will she complete Tucky Seasons?
Traffic Stop [message #6057] Thu, 16 October 2008 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 15:40

...Debbie may get a lecture [from her mother]. On the other hand, given that Debbie is emancipated, and certain other things (like what she told Bill when he wanted to complain about Debbie) it may just be a matter of being really annoyed.

Huh? Helen told Bill something? As far as I know they've never met.

(OtherEric observed some time ago that there are reasons to believe that Helen does already know that Valerie is Tuck, based on Debbie having to explain breaking off her relationships with both of them after the L.A. trip where as far as Helen knew only Valerie was present.)

Eric
Re: Traffic Stop [message #6058] Thu, 16 October 2008 08:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Well, about OtherEric's deduction: If I remember well, Helen never MET Tuck AS Tuck, only as Valerie. So, she might not even realize Debbie was still dating Tuck at the time.

And anyway, there's the simplest and easiest explanation about why did she break up with both of them at the same time: "I found out Tuck was cheating on me with Valerie, okay?"


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Traffic Stop [message #6059] Sat, 18 October 2008 08:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Thu, 16 October 2008 01:32

Brooke wrote on Sat, 11 October 2008 15:40

...Debbie may get a lecture [from her mother]. On the other hand, given that Debbie is emancipated, and certain other things (like what she told Bill when he wanted to complain about Debbie) it may just be a matter of being really annoyed.

Huh? Helen told Bill something? As far as I know they've never met.


Ah I was misremembering this bit

Tuck 103

She shook her head. "Debbie already went over there, right?"
"Yeah," Kim gushed in relief, "she said she told your parents that her mom didn't bother interfering in her business or anything else, which I think kind of upset your mom..."

Re: Tuck 140 [message #6073] Mon, 03 November 2008 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Schol-R-LEA  is currently offline Schol-R-LEA
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Even in a larger city, Tuck could have problems. Trust me, even in SF, there are plenty of incidents of cops hassling or even finding reasons to arrest TV/TS folks. The prostitution one is fairly common, especially away from the areas where trans prostitutes are usually found. While the department has strict rules about it, there are always was to bend them, and even if there's no malice involved, there's often just an assumption of guilt by the police on the part of any citizen they come across. And departmental punishment, even if severe, doesn't undo what has happened, nor does it do much to deter drastic action in the heat of the moment.

All we know for certain is that they are in driving distance of King's Island, which (assuming that that is a reference to the actual, real world location) means they are probably in southwest Ohio near Warren county. Even if they are in (pause to check some maps) Hamilton county (Cincinnati and environs), they seem to be in medium-sized suburb (not unlike the city I grew up in), larger enough to have a sizable police department but unlikely to have a significant LGBT population. It's my experience that the police in such areas - not so small that you know everyone, but not so large that there is a lot of oversight - often have the most room for abuse of police power, especially since many suburban cops IME are former big-city cops who got pushed off to the side for persistent minor violations that weren't quite enough to get them fired outright.

(Part of it is just the nature of suburban life, IMAO. In the US, the suburbs are essentially large nurseries for the middle class, with everything being kid-safed all around as much as possible. Most people I know of only move to the suburbs for one reason: to have a 'safe environment' for raising a family. This attitude colors everything people do and say in these places. but I digress.)

Most of the cops are going to be decent folks - but it only takes one bastard to make Tuck's life miserable. Besides, 'decent folks' can do some terrible things to people they think aren't decent, and feel justified in doing so. Even if the cop in question didn't have any trouble with queerfolk personally, stopping someone is by definition a situation where they are alert for probable cause - not out of malice, but because that's just the nature of a stop. A cop who isn't alert for things like that takes their life in their hands, because you never know who it is you're pulling over.

While it is unlikely that, for any given stop, Tuck couldn't eventually explain things to the officers and get it settled without too much trouble, all it takes - for Tuck or anyone else - is one officer who is looking for trouble, or on edge for some reason, to bring the hammer down.

[Updated on: Mon, 03 November 2008 17:16]

Maddog [message #6103] Thu, 04 December 2008 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Has Jack's band associate gone Hollywood, so to speak, or does he just enjoy messing with the Pack's minds?

When they first were introduced to Maddog in January, Jack said his name was Ray, and he told them he preferred to be called Maddog.

Now he seems to have convinced at least two of the girls that his birth name was Prince. (I suppose there's a mental tie-in there: Prince (implies) King (equals) Rey...)

It's not impossible that he was telling the truth, and that Ray was simply the name he was going by before. And perhaps it's worth mentioning that the deception (if it exists) goes both ways: the girls (except for Valerie) claimed to be age 18 back when they met the band and went to Maddog's apartment.

Eric
Re: Maddog [message #6108] Fri, 05 December 2008 11:46 Go to previous message
LuLou  is currently offline LuLou
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If Ray is his middle name, I can see a tough-guy in the Midwest going by that rather than his given name of Prince.

LuLou
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