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Why we read what we read [message #2242] Wed, 15 September 2004 09:25 Go to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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after reading a new addition to a compleatly differant story and writing a critique about it, i realised that i could use this time of silent waiting and fasting to discus something that hasn't realy come up in this group, yet has been hinted at repeatedly.

Autogynephilia: and why we read TG fiction.

looking through the piles of falderal that calls its self a story archive, it's pretty easy to divide TG stories up into differant classes. I divide them up by what motivates people to read that kinda story.

The first group that comes to mind is the transvitite fantacies. These are the ones that go on for ages describing a single dress. for a while these worried me, making me think i didnt know enough about clothes to pass as a woman, but i asked each of my GG freinds what the differant tecnical terms and fabric types meant, and anything beyond the simple ones i knew, not one of them had a clue, or if they did, they just knew that it was something they didn't pay atention to. so i decided that these stories arn't representative of normal female behavior and thus, catagorise them as transvestite stories.

Then there's the autogynephilic stories. now, i'm not talking about the theory that says all TS are just men with varius fetishes... i'm simply refering to the desire of men (and some women) to romantisise the simple joy of becomeing and being a woman. though many of these stories IMHO take this too far and close to the relm of full blown fetish. these are the stories that go on for pages describing the physical transformation, or the erotic sensations of mundain activities. the women tend to look unrealisticly beutiful and have insanly hightened sex drives. definantly not the kind of woman you would want to "take home to mommy". the character may protest but the author just keeps pulling them along like a rag doll. i often find thatthe main character could be replaiced with a potted plant and the reader would never notice. this type of story is often combined with a bit of TV fetishism in describing how clothing feels gliding across the soft, smooth skin. oh ya, these also have a tendancy to use words like feminine repetitively. i've seen it three times in two adjacent sentances. i've also found it ironic that they describe the male traits of full, thick eyelashes and high, prominant cheekbones as being feminine. but these stories always feel pressure to portray the main character as feminine in every way, usualy to the detriment of storyline.

the third kinds is my favorite. (and the catagory i'd put the Tuck into) this is what i think of as a TG story. it's just a story where the main character happens to be trans but it's not the whole point of the story. the transformation may be described in rather full detail, but after, they don't bother discussing it. the character doesn't go shopping for clothes all the time, describing each dress in intrecate detail, nor do they have to just ignore all the changes. a little internal conflict with the change is needed to maintain a sence of realism.


none of these catagories have anything to do with the quality of the writing. there are many stories in the thrid group that i can't read becouse it's so baddly written. then again there's stories of the first two that are so well writen that i care for the characters and can't put them down.

now for the questions. what do you think of my classifications? how would you divide them.

and most importantly, what motivates YOU to read TG stories. do you read Tuck for the same reason? if not, why DO you read Tuck?
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2243] Wed, 15 September 2004 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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I read Tuck because I keep writing it, and if I don't re-read it I miss things that I wrote earlier. *grins*

Your classifications are not bad, IMO, but there's another axis of classification which I find very important...
('Scuse me, I'm working this out on a WP in realtime, rather than going away and composing an Essay On The Topic; I also have a headache.)

I find that one axis to classify T*-stories on, is the willingness of the protagonist to engage in those activities. Most stories, the protagonist (which I am going to abbreviate to 'prot' from now on) does NOT want the changes, at least to start with. Why do we see so few of those?

I know why I didn't have that happen with Tuck... it's a better character conflict, and one which I have some familiarity with (as opposed to, say, the character conflicted over the ethics of insider trading, which I don't have ANY familiarity with)
But most stories like that, the ostensibly 'just your average guy' twists INSANELY fast into an accepting or positive outlook on the changes. Why is this?


Ellen
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Re: Why we read what we read [message #2244] Wed, 15 September 2004 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
T.  is currently offline T.
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 11:45

But most stories like that, the ostensibly 'just your average guy' twists INSANELY fast into an accepting or positive outlook on the changes. Why is this?


"Because they catch sight of themselves in that convenient full-length mirror," said Brad, as he pulled the black, lacy panties up his now-smooth legs...

*ducks incoming stun grenades*

:-)

T.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2245] Wed, 15 September 2004 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 08:45


But most stories like that, the ostensibly 'just your average guy' twists INSANELY fast into an accepting or positive outlook on the changes. Why is this?


Well, Sturgeon's law applies with full force to free online fiction. The miracle is that we do get the 5 or 10% that is actually good or even great. Beyond that, I assume that most of the people writing stories that get posted free online are writing, first and foremost, for themselves. (I hear that this is true of most writers, and I would think it is even more common among people not getting paid for this.) I also assume that most people writing TG fiction are, to some degree, TG themselves. The characters are going to react positivly to the changes because the writers would view the changes as positive. Even if they know that wouldn't be the case for an actual 'average guy'.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2246] Wed, 15 September 2004 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Your threefold division has some ring of the truth and as a first generalization, I think it is probably better than most.

Some stories cross the patterns though. One of the strengths of Tuck's appeal is that Ellen has written a tale with strong elements from all three of your groups. There's enough shopping, wardrobe and makeup for all but the most ardent TV fetishist, Tuck is willy-nilly turning into a woman for the autogynephiles and the slow transformation could hardly be slower or more thorough, and for another group of TGs, (TSs?), well, the fantasy of discovering you had been a girl all along is pretty common.

The fiction groups overlap and interpenetrate (ooo!) Shocked a great deal, just as the reality of TG people is not one of borders and boundaries but of self-exploration.

I think a lot of the best TG fiction does appeal across more than one of these categories. Ellen is so good at it, one would think she does it on purpose. Surprised

I know that in my own stories, I've used the cliches of one sort of TG fiction to play against the expectations of another sort. I think this can give a story more depth and reality.

And Ellen is damn good at it. Very Happy

- Erin
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2247] Wed, 15 September 2004 19:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 22:22


There's enough shopping, wardrobe and makeup for all but the most ardent TV fetishist, [...]


This is either demonstrably false, or I have a higher threshold for 'most ardent TV fetishist' than I thought. Some have complained that I don't describe enough about what Tucker is wearing.

Erin Halfelven wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 22:22


[...] the slow transformation could hardly be slower [...]


Have you done this in real life? What's happened so far is hardly 'slow' from what I've seen in real life.


Ellen
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icon10.gif  Re: Why we read what we read [message #2248] Wed, 15 September 2004 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Well, not being a clothes fetishist myself, perhaps I overestimated. Confused I have trouble getting intensely detailed about clothing descriptions, too. I think the most I ever did was in Mercedes. I usually have to go look up terms. Embarassed

And as far as slow transformation, I meant verbiage not internal time. 105 chapters and counting is pretty slow. Laughing

And don't we love it slow! Very Happy

- Erin
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2253] Fri, 17 September 2004 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Yes, willingness defiantly is a way to divide stories. But too many of them are forced/unwanted. I was so surprised when Beck D. Corbin (I love that pun) actually had her character for the Whately Academy story be completely ok, and even enthusiastic about the change. Most authors can't do that because it's too much of the plot of the story.

All stories have to have some kinda conflict, whether its tragedy or comedy, there's protagonists trying to do something, and some kinda antagonist that tries to stop them. This conflict drives the story onward... and is one reason why I think the Tuck Saga is over as soon as tuck decides firmly on one gender or the other. Even though I don't doubt Ellen’s ability to write a story where less of the conflict comes from TG related issues, I don't think as many people would read it.

Back to willingness and unwillingness in stories. Within the "I don’t' want this" category, there's another category. The one where the character will hem and haw about how this is horrible and he'll never let this happen again, and then he finds himself doing it anyways. If the character really doesn't want to do it, the author just does it anyways. Some authors manage this pretty well, like the first bit of Gaby, but it doesn't work forever as that story shows, eventually the kid should either get over it or go ballistic. Tuck almost did this, but the promise of sex and tuck's feeling of duty and a strict discipline of "keeping his word" have gotten him into a lot of these situations, and tuck knows it.

So I think in a way, the tuck saga falls into a lot of the old traps of TS fiction, but then it uses good characters and writing to get out of it, not just more and more plot holes that just keep piling up. I think that's why we like it. it appears to fall into the same familiar plot holes, so it all seems familiar, but then it explains them away in logical manners and it all makes sense and, (and this is the important part) and then it keeps going with them. it doesn't just drop that which it has established. Ellen has to go back and re-read this story more times than i do because she cares about making this story feel right. She doesn't want any continuity errors or anything. *cough6-25cough cough* so everything is familiar to us, and yet better, like this is the story and all those that had come before were based on. She takes what has already been done and makes it hers. We all talk about how different tuck is from all other stories, but if you break it down, there are TONS of stories that have the same things happen, that use that same conflicts, but its how Ellen has done it that makes it different. The trips to the mall aren’t JUST to fulfill the TV wet dreams. The transformation isn't JUST to fulfill the... others. And though it's technically forced fem, it's not like the others. Tuck always maintained control and you never felt like his free will was taken away. I’m sure Ellen has had to re-work quite a lot of this story over the years because tuck just refused to go along with what she had planned.

So in a way, we read tuck because of the integrity of the characters, but we also read it because we get what we expect, even if it's not exactly HOW we expect it.


On a side note,
Why do MtFs read stories about boys trapped in girl's bodies? Shouldn’t they read/write them the other way around? I know in my only real story I’ve written, it was about a girl raised as a boy. So why are so many of the stories the other way? Tuck for example, he grew up wanting to become a big tough man, how many MtFs wanted that? And he's disturbed and upset and almost killed himself because his body was becoming more feminine. How would MtFs react if a doctor told them they would grow breasts and never be able to grow a beard? Probably "is that all? Thanks, I think I can handle it from here." I could see tucks reaction if it was the fear of having a long held secret desire suddenly made public. But that wasn’t tuck’s fear.

Maybe it's just too painful to read about girls who are changed into a boy and are trying to stay a girl. Maybe it's to make those who can't transition feel better about staying men.

What’s everyone else's take on this. It’s something I’ve never understood. Why do MtFs enjoy reading stories about what are essentially FtMs?
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2254] Fri, 17 September 2004 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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One short note on 'forced femme' ...

If you read closely (and I have), I don't think Tuck has EVER been 'forced' in the conventional sense to dress as female. He's been trapped where other options are a whole lot worse (but not too many of those, either; second episode waking up in Deb's house comes first to mind); but mostly it's been someone talking him into it. Which, by my definition (and his parents'), makes him a willing participant, however much he whines about it later.


Ellen
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Re: Why we read what we read [message #2255] Fri, 17 September 2004 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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And a longer reply...

Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


All stories have to have some kinda conflict, whether its tragedy or comedy, there's protagonists trying to do something, and some kinda antagonist that tries to stop them. This conflict drives the story onward...


Heck, you might even call that The Plot. =)
Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


On a side note,


Or to divert the topic entirely
Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


Why do MtFs read stories about boys trapped in girl's bodies?


Because that's 90% or more of what's out there. Perhaps a better way of stating that would be, "Why do people WRITE stories about boys trapped in girl's bodies?"
Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


How would MtFs react if a doctor told them they would grow breasts and never be able to grow a beard? Probably "is that all? Thanks, I think I can handle it from here."


That SERIOUSLY depends on just how comfortable the person is with their own decision/choice/desire to become female. If you went back and asked YOURSELF whether you'd like it at, say, age twelve, your answer would have been... ? (no magic, no 'wave a magic wand' or 'whisk you away into a new and girly identity', just your own body changing in the middle of your own existing life).
I happened to know around 17-18 what I wanted; not surprisingly, when I got out of the parents' house I started transitioning as fast as I've ever done anything on my own in my entire life (not that this is "fast", mind...). But that was me. Most of you, if I recollect my stats right, are older, and started transitioning much later in life than that. Why did you wait?
Perhaps you were somewhat ambivalent about becoming-female?

Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


Shouldn't they read/write them the other way around? I know in my only real story I've written, it was about a girl raised as a boy. So why are so many of the stories the other way?


Ever heard the dictum, "Write what you know?"
Most (possibly the vast majority) of us M2F's were raised with EVERYONE around us expecting us to become MEN, not WOMEN, as we matured. We were also expected to do other things, like be able to walk without help, breathe without help, etc. Finding out that this ain't gonna happen is devastating to parents and others; and sometimes more so when "it's only psychological" as it is in the case of T*'s.
Furthermore, it takes a lot of imagination, or some outside information, to think of choices other than the ones presented to you. I'd bet that very very few of the readers here, or on Fictionmania or Storysite.org or other such, were asked one day by their parents, "Gee, kid, have you ever thought about being a woman/girl?" And even fewer were asked in a manner that indicated that such a choice would be acceptable, rather than the mark of a deranged and sick person.
Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


Tuck for example, he grew up wanting to become a big tough man, how many MtFs wanted that?


How many of us were shown that that's what we SHOULD want, as young children? It takes a LONG time to find out that parents can be All Wrong about some things; you start by believing what they show and tell you, and how they act towards you.
Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 12:41


Maybe it's just too painful to read about girls who are changed into a boy and are trying to stay a girl. Maybe it's to make those who can't transition feel better about staying men.


Maybe it reflects an ambivalence that most of us have felt at SOME time or another; whether it was at age six, or ten, or eighteen, or thirty...
We know that tension, and we know how powerful it can be, and what it can drive us to; that's obviously a powerful emotion, and therefore something useful to 'play' with in writing.
To go back to Plot up there, while it is POSSIBLE to write something in which the main character starts out with what they want, and then sits around and enjoys it, that is generally considered not-that-interesting a story. You need a conflict... and here's one we know.

There is something related to this that bothers me a lot in others' fiction; a total rejection of self-responsibility for that choice - or 'forced femme' to call it by a more familiar name. I've mentioned Vicki Tern as the worst offender in my eyes before, because I see her technical skills at writing - spelling, grammar, tenses, etc - to be so far above average, and yet her characters are.... so INHUMAN that I cannot see them as people. And in all the stories of hers that I have examined, the ostensibly-male character is turned into female by (hostile) outside forces without even struggling against his fate.
In this, the "change-into-female" is seen as a punishment, and a bad thing - possibly the worst thing that could happen to anyone, even worse than death, and that's the way it's presented in the story - and yet the character does not fight this?
Worse yet, the character is put through things that would make most Child Protective Services agents sick, and they don't fight against THIS either?
I think I know why this is so popular both amongst authors and readers; it's a complete removal or absence of responsibility on the part of the changed-person. "Gee, I know it was a bad thing for me to want to become a girl/woman [that is why it is so often used as a PUNISHMENT], but you see I WAS FORCED INTO IT... and therefore it's not my fault nor my responsibility. I AM NOT GUILTY." And this concept is far too attractive to those who are still struggling with themselves, wanting something which is completely forbidden (socially).
I feel this is puerile, worse-than-childish, and exceedingly harmful both to the person and to us-as-a-population, because of the inferences others around that person might make about, say, me. _I_ don't claim that there's anyone to blame for my transition except me; would someone who knows Vicki Tern from her writings (and no others), believe that I admit responsibility for my own actions? When I read Vicki Tern, do I think that SHE believes she takes responsibility for acting on her own desires in this area?
Does Vicki Tern think we are all Damned into this state? Her STORIES suggest exactly that, to me.


The ensuing forensic brawl is left as an exercise for the readers... =)


Ellen
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Re: Why we read what we read [message #2257] Fri, 17 September 2004 12:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 07:02

One short note on 'forced femme' ...

If you read closely (and I have), I don't think Tuck has EVER been 'forced' in the conventional sense to dress as female. He's been trapped where other options are a whole lot worse (but not too many of those, either; second episode waking up in Deb's house comes first to mind); but mostly it's been someone talking him into it. Which, by my definition (and his parents'), makes him a willing participant, however much he whines about it later.


Ellen
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i didn't mean to say that he was forced physicly, but there are times when he's pressured, or it's the best/most logical action in the given situation.

so, i gues we could divide forced fem into "secretly wants to but needs the push", "fate conspires against them", and "sadistic and controling people do harmfull things"

the first is silly in my mind, the second get old in too long of stories, and the third is sick.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2258] Fri, 17 September 2004 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

Because that's 90% or more of what's out there. Perhaps a better way of stating that would be, "Why do people WRITE stories about boys trapped in girl's bodies?"


that's what i meant, sorry, i don't express myself as well as i'd liked. but people tend to write what they want to read, isn't that why you started writing, ellen?


Quote:

Most of you, if I recollect my stats right, are older, and started transitioning much later in life than that. Why did you wait?
Perhaps you were somewhat ambivalent about becoming-female?


i started at 18, and if i had found myself in a situation like tuck, i know EXACTLY what i would have done, becouse i thought about it a lot at that age and planned it out exactly. i would have hidden it, as well as i could have. then when it got to the point where no one could ojbect to it, i would have had an "unvailing". i don't know, maybe i'm just weird.


Quote:

Ever heard the dictum, "Write what you know?"


that was my point actualy. if people were writing what they know, they should be writing stories about boys wanting to be girls, or girls that are kept from being a girl. the first one is rare, people like to have responcability taken from them. but the second i dont' think i've ever seen. the story of a girl who is raised as a boy by mistake/design. i HAVE read the opposite though. which confuses me to no end.

the only thing that i can come up with is that the people want to believe that it's normal for boys to want to be girls, that it's common and if any boy is forced to be a girl they will fourish and learn to love and enjoy it.

also, there are very few stories about an actual self identifying TS.


Quote:

Maybe it reflects an ambivalence that most of us have felt at SOME time or another


that's a good point. but a story about ambivalence? the motivation doesn't seem strong enough for the emotions that these stories raise.


Quote:

There is something related to this that bothers me a lot in others' fiction; a total rejection of self-responsibility for that choice - or 'forced femme' to call it by a more familiar name.


yes, i agree with basicly everything you said there about that. yay! we agree!
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2260] Fri, 17 September 2004 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Doragoon:
You might want to check whatever you are writing posts with. It's sticking some weird character in place of the apostrophe and Mozilla is displaying all of them as (ampersand)#8217;

"(ampersand" used instead of the actual character to avoid triggering weird browsers.

It's not every post, but that big long one that Ellen made the long reply to was a bit hard to read because of it. Sad

[Updated on: Fri, 17 September 2004 16:25]

Re: Why we read what we read [message #2261] Fri, 17 September 2004 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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I'll just note that the incident at age 4 recounted by the main character in my NiS story is based on a real incident related by a TS friend. I just filed off the serial numbers.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2262] Fri, 17 September 2004 17:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

You might want to check whatever you are writing posts with.


microsoft word... i figured my long post needed the spell/grammer checking. and i was scared about responding to ellen and thought i should "put on my best clothes". after i saw what microsoft did to the post, i didn't do it again. i'll have to figure out how to stop that before i use it again, so everyone has to suffer through my horrible spelling and grammer and everything.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2263] Fri, 17 September 2004 19:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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You have to turn off the smart editing features, especially smart quotes which is right up there with the most insane names for stupid features I've ever seen. Smile
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2264] Fri, 17 September 2004 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 14:26

Quote:

You might want to check whatever you are writing posts with.


microsoft word... i figured my long post needed the spell/grammer checking. and i was scared about responding to ellen and thought i should "put on my best clothes". after i saw what microsoft did to the post, i didn't do it again. i'll have to figure out how to stop that before i use it again, so everyone has to suffer through my horrible spelling and grammer and everything.


Grab a copy of OpenOffice. It's free. It doesn't have a grammar checker, but most of those aren't that great for anything but business correspondence.

Re: Why we read what we read [message #2265] Fri, 17 September 2004 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 16:27

You have to turn off the smart editing features, especially smart quotes which is right up there with the most insane names for stupid features I've ever seen. Smile


No, that "honor" goes to the programs that will send a message consisting solely of ASCII text, and base-64 encode it. Thus making it half again as big, and *totally* unreadable for folks with older mail programs.

Some day, I'm going to write a filter to pre-process email at my POP3 host. Anything containing "content-type: text/plain" or "content-type: text/html" followed by "content-encoding: base64" will get bounced with a nasty message that my domain does not accept such messages.

And given that a lot of spam uses that trick, I can even justify it.

Re: Why we read what we read [message #2273] Sat, 18 September 2004 08:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherizad  is currently offline Sherizad
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Quote:

that was my point actualy. if people were writing what they know, they should be writing stories about boys wanting to be girls, or girls that are kept from being a girl. the first one is rare, people like to have responcability taken from them. but the second i dont' think i've ever seen. the story of a girl who is raised as a boy by mistake/design. i HAVE read the opposite though. which confuses me to no end


Well... you may have no read it, but actually I'm writting about something like that... Maybe one of these years I'll just finish it, and I'll translate it into english, but, heck, it's hard for me to write, sometimes. Guess being mildly happy was preventing me or something like that.

Anyway, truth is almost everything that can be found is M2F forced transformation, or something... One may think they are excusing themselves... feeling guilty, or some other crap like that. So, you can only read what's published... Wish I had a Delorian, then I'd be able to have some variety, but, nowadays, I just can't.

Back to the question... Why do we (or I) read TG stories? Well. I'm a roleplayer, I guess. I mean, when I'm reading something, I try to think hat would I do in that situation (from all those RP games), and hell... here's something I know EXACTLY how would I feel. Anyway, that's part of how I started reading TG stories. Other part is I just found one while I was researching on TS, and I've inherited from my mother a... let's say lust... for reading. Actually she has read the phone directory, so... if something can be read, why to spoil it? So, I got hooked. Not that I read that many TG stories, mainly I'm hooked up with Tuck, and I've read a couple more, not that much, anyway.

Why do I like Tuck's saga? Well.... Tuck could be real... I mean, it just happen to be a fiction character, but he could be a real person. That also applies to rest of the characters. Also, noone of them are "forced" by Ellen to do something they wouldn't be doing (e.g. Jill dressing female just to encourage Tuck). What I mean... Even "profesional" writters, as Eduardo Mendoza, have done this with some character, even with prots.

On a final thought... you may not act, or even thought, same as Tucker, but... you sure can identify with him.
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2276] Sat, 18 September 2004 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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A story about a girl who was raised as a boy? Go read, "The Fairy King" by Wanda Cunningham at BigCloset. Smile

- Erin
Re: Why we read what we read [message #2277] Sat, 18 September 2004 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Sherizad wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 05:46

Quote:

that was my point actualy. if people were writing what they know, they should be writing stories about boys wanting to be girls,



It's very unfinished, and takes a few liberties with timelines and other things but....

http://www.shadowgard.com/~brooke/erotica/girl.html
What's in a Name? [message #2482] Sat, 02 October 2004 07:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Doragoon wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 04:41

I was so surprised when Beck D. Corbin (I love that pun) actually had her character for the Whately Academy story be completely ok, and even enthusiastic about the change.


Not sure whether I'm dense or what, but I've been looking for the pun in that name ever since you wrote this, and I still haven't figured it out. Somebody please explain...

Thanks, Eric
Re: What's in a Name? [message #2483] Sat, 02 October 2004 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brudin  is currently offline brudin
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/agree Eric

could you explain the pun? (i am good in english but i dont see ther) Confused


Brudin, palanain de Moradin.
(Moradin's paladwarf, cool joke in french Wink )
Re: What's in a Name? [message #2484] Sat, 02 October 2004 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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A bec d'corbin (or some similar name) is a medieval weapon. A type of polearm as I recall.

Yep!

http://www.aemma.org/vmp/armsArmour/arms/training.htm
Re: What's in a Name? [message #2485] Sat, 02 October 2004 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Literally, Crow's Beak. Basically, a long pole with a triple head, giving it the attack forms of a spear, a hammer and a pick. The pick end does resemble a bird beak. The hammer end often has spikes on the face of the hammer.

Almost as funny as a Bohemian earspoon which is a spear with a spike one either side. Found in museums of medieval weaponry and fantasy role playing rule books. Smile

- Erin
Re: What's in a Name? [message #2486] Sat, 02 October 2004 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Thanks, people. Glad to find that it was something I didn't know rather than something that I couldn't figure out.

Eric
Re: Why we read what we read [message #6288] Thu, 06 August 2009 12:23 Go to previous message
Citywalker  is currently offline Citywalker
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Registered: August 2009
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Why we read what we read -- I think there's also a short answer to that: the transformation actually works in these stories. Sometimes it's good to at least read about success, when you're somewhat down in the mood.
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