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Cloud computing? [message #7754] Fri, 29 March 2013 00:54 Go to next message
Anne  is currently offline Anne
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Is it just me or does cloud computing give you all a cold shiver?
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7755] Fri, 29 March 2013 13:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Anne wrote on Thu, 28 March 2013 21:54

Is it just me or does cloud computing give you all a cold shiver?

It's the latest iteration of the 'thin client' paradigm where the data storage and 'heavy computing' aspects are pushed out onto a 'more robust and easily managed platform.' It's totally dependent on connectivity and is probably well-suited for large corporations who can create and manage their own clouds. For individuals it's a way to lose control over their information and yeah, it scares me.

Note: the 'thin client' paradigm has its roots in the dumb-terminal-and-mainframe era, which wasn't all that bad when compared to using punch cards.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7756] Fri, 29 March 2013 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Anne wrote on Fri, 29 March 2013 04:54

Is it just me or does cloud computing give you all a cold shiver?

Makes me bonkers; it's Mainframes 3.0, and I swear to god I seem to be the only one that sees that.

Mainframe+terminal - or 'thin client' (Mainframes 2.0), or 'cloud computing' (3.0) - works fine and is cheap, right until the wires/LAN/Internet breaks, which they do; or until the mainframe/mainframe/cloud hardware breaks, which it does; or some lackwit at the mainframe/mainframe/cloud end does the equivalent of "rm -rf *" and wipes everything; or there's a natural disaster, like Katrina or Ike or Sandy or Tohoku earthquake or (...) and the power goes out at the mainframe/mainframe/cloud. Then you're fucked. And you stay fucked. And maybe you get your data back, some time, and maybe not. You won't know when; everyone who could possibly have a clue is insulated from you by several layers of poorly paid customer service reps; and they'll be playing the finger-pointing game at everyone else. I'm quite sure that the acolytes there at the mainframe/mainframe/cloud don't give nearly as much of a damn about my data as I do. Nor do they care if I can't function because everything is gone, as much as I do.

And then there's this (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/08/apple-amazon-mat-honan-hacking/), which is like this year's poster child for backing things up yourself - and not trusting 'the cloud'.
(I'm aware it happened last year; but I ran into it back in November, and I'm giving it 12 months of 'current')

And then there's the privacy issue. Since there isn't any, unless you encrypt - strongly - everything you send to the cloud, yourself. Which will likely be hard to impossible, may violate TOS, and may attract unhappy attention from governments who demand to know what you've got to hide.

Cloud's a potentially useful extra tool, but not a replacement for actual hardware, actual software, actual network, or having control over your own data.

Ellen
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7757] Fri, 29 March 2013 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne  is currently offline Anne
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I just get altogether nervous about my data eventually being held hostage. I really have to focus on getting away from microscrew...
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7760] Sat, 30 March 2013 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Even an external USB storage unit - flash or hard drive - will provide you with a great deal of backup and security. It won't prevent Them from rummaging, but it might well keep them from holding your stuff hostage for money.

(note: while I was writing a rant in which I said no one had figured out that Cloud was Mainframe 3.0, mkemp was writing a post in which he said exactly that. *wipes egg off face*)

Ellen
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7762] Sun, 31 March 2013 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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No need for egg;
great minds and all that.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7764] Mon, 01 April 2013 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne  is currently offline Anne
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I guess then that the cold chill it gives me is well justified.
1984 anyone?
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7765] Mon, 01 April 2013 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Anne wrote on Mon, 01 April 2013 14:40

I guess then that the cold chill it gives me is well justified.
1984 anyone?
In this case it isn't Big Brother watching through your TV, it's Big Brother reading everything you put online anywhere, including into the cloud. And, for altogether too many people, seems to be everything they think about.

I don't have Facebook, Twitter, Myspace. I signed up for a free blog once but didn't get past the initial setup. Don't have a smart phone, iPad, e-book reader. I don't text on my cellphone, either. I've got a couple of probably-working Palm Pilots Around Here Somewhere.

Yeah, to some I might be characterized as a Luddite.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7768] Wed, 03 April 2013 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Crap, mkemp; are you me?

Except, I have Handspring Visors and I know where they are; and I have a Linux-based ebook reader (Calibre) which I think isn't what you meant.

"Sometimes, I think I can see right through myself..." NIN

Ellen
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7769] Wed, 03 April 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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mkemp wrote on Mon, 01 April 2013 18:38

I don't have Facebook, Twitter, Myspace. I signed up for a free blog once but didn't get past the initial setup. Don't have a smart phone, iPad, e-book reader. I don't text on my cellphone, either. I've got a couple of probably-working Palm Pilots Around Here Somewhere.


Well, I date back to before the Great Renaming on the internet (when they reorganized the usenet newsgroups hierarchy). Which is also before the internet had domains.

I recall when the first usenet archive went online. And I discovered that a search on my name brought up a page that was half posts to tech groups and half posts to alt.sex/bondage.

So I learned the hard way about being careful. I'm still traceable (no real way around that at the degree of effort I'm willing to put into it) but you have to put a *little work into it.

I'm on Livejournal (with a couple of unused "backup" accounts on other sites). I wound up with a Facebook account due to their *abysmal* security practices. I don't use it.

How did I wind up with it? My hotmail account (which I got originally because you needed one to uses Microsoft's chat client and kept because every once in a while hotmail would start bouncing emails from the mailing lists I run) started getting Facebook notifications.

Seems some teenager in Guatemala had signed up for Facebook using my hotmail address. Yes, they let her start posting without confirm that it was her address. (I suspect that her actual email address was at hotmail.?? rather than hotmail.com)

My attempts to contact Facebook to get them to fix things got ignored (or, rather treated as her trying to fix a login problem. Facebook's staff is worse than most support staffs when it comes to only looking for keywords in mail and *ignoring* the actual content)

Finally a friend who actually *uses* Facebook submitted a password change request (yes anyone can request a password change on any FB account). This resulted in a confirmation request getting sent to the email account associated with the account which was *my* hotmail.

So I changed the password and put up a big notice in English and Spanish noting that the person was using someone else's email account and for her friens to tell her to contact me to straighten things out or I'd deal with things my way.

A couple weeks later I nuked all her content and but up really minimal info for me.

I think she *finally* quit trying to log into the account last month as I haven't gotten a FB email with "sorry about your login problems" for a while. Used to get them every week.

I still get "do you know XXX" messages listing folks who used to be her friends on FB.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #7775] Wed, 03 April 2013 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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I had a similar problem with some idiot attempting to create a facebook account with my e-mail. I can't figure out what exactly he was attempting to do...
First, the e-mail is derived from my RL name. The name he registered in Facebook was NOTHING like my name. Not even the initials. They are as dissimilar as... well, as Kim Jong-Il and George W. Bush. You can't really see Kim Jong-Il using a "gwbush@gmail.com" account BY ACCIDENT.

I did the same as Brooke, only faster -- FB actually attempted to confirm that the guy had a valid e-mail. So, RIGHT AFTER REGISTRATION, I took the guy's account, changed the password and requested account deletion.

FB won't delete an account immediately -- there's a sort of "repent period" where you can reactivate the account simply by logging in. But eventually, it expired and the count was gone.

Think the story was over? No, the SAME GUY attempted the SAME STUNT again. I again deleted the account.

I really have no idea of what passes in the alleged minds of some people.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #8103] Sat, 27 July 2013 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Fri, 29 March 2013 11:06

Anne wrote on Fri, 29 March 2013 04:54

Is it just me or does cloud computing give you all a cold shiver?
I'm quite sure that the acolytes there at the mainframe/mainframe/cloud don't give nearly as much of a damn about my data as I do. Nor do they care if I can't function because everything is gone, as much as I do.


Actually, we care a lot about your data.
Once Upon A Time I was part of the DASD(0) Management team for the monster mainframes(1) on IBM's Boulder, CO site(3). We did daily, weekly and monthly backups of normal user data plus daily backups ot 'mission critical' data. The backups went to tape and we archived them offsite.

(0) Direct Access Storage Device, AKA disk drive, back in the day when a terabyte of data was a computer room full of refrigerator-sized drives.

(1) 3000-5000 users logged on all the time 24x7x365.

(3) I was responsible for four systems and there must have been a dozen at the site. Four 3-story buildings, computer rooms twice the size of a basketball court in the middle of each floor with offices around the periphery. Backup generators big enough to power the whole complex. Industrial-scale computing.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #8105] Sat, 27 July 2013 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne  is currently offline Anne
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No they cared about 'their' data. The difference is if I consign my data to Microsoft (or Google) or any other company they either charge me to store it (ala Carbonite et al) or they mine it (or possibly both.And if it gets lost well they will charge me to get it back (unless I was paying them to keep it) sometimes even after I paid them to keep it. And that is before it becomes of interest to the NSA or other govt agencies. I (in theory) agree with the base mission of the NSA. The difficulty is this: given that most (if not all) Americans send unencrypted messages over the internet and phone lines, and that foreign powers (other govts) are properly paranoid and send encrypted messages, and that the NSA can 'listen' to both of them, which ones do you expect that they will listen to first?

Also I'm just paranoid enough to believe Lord Acton when he said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Re: Cloud computing? [message #8111] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:06 Go to previous message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Different mindset, I guess. To us, the user community was an anonymous mob spread all over the planet. We didn't care a bit about what their data was, just that we had to safeguard it.
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