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Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #697] Wed, 11 December 2002 10:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

Sheila does not seem to be that sort of counsellor to me.


as i've been saying. shiela has been taking a humanistic aqproach. basicly letting tuck defin his own therepy and hoping that he'll come to accept things just by talking about it to somone who gives him unconditional acceptance. and sometimes it does help to have somone accept whatever you say and support you no matter how horrible you think you are. but this isn't really what tuck needs. he seemsto have that in travis already. and he doesn't really care about what shiela has to say to him.

left on his own i don't think tuck will ever discover the wholes in his logic. even with somone gently nudging him. he needs sheila totake him by the collar again and force his nose into the proverbial pile of shit. then they can admit that it's there and that something needs to be done about it. he needs hrto bedirect to him. she's the expert and he's just the client. she knows a lot better than tuck what problems like his mean and what can be done about them. so instead of tuck beating himself up abut them and hiding from them, shiela needs to tell him, 'look, this is your problem. it's not that bad. it's NOT going o kill you. you need to do something about it. what is that going to be?'

oh well. that won't happen. they are too afraid of tuck facing things too face. and shiela thinks she got the big mystery out of the way, not knowing that it's only the tip of the tip of the iceburg. who knows what lurks in the heart of tuck....
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #700] Wed, 11 December 2002 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vicki  is currently offline Vicki
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Doragoon wrote on Wed, 11 December 2002 09:46


as i've been saying. shiela has been taking a humanistic aqproach. basicly letting tuck defin his own therepy and hoping that he'll come to accept things just by talking about it to somone who gives him unconditional acceptance. and sometimes it does help to have somone accept whatever you say and support you no matter how horrible you think you are. but this isn't really what tuck needs. he seemsto have that in travis already. and he doesn't really care about what shiela has to say to him.


I think IMHO that Sheila is actually gathering information and when she get enough information then she will start drawing conclusions and possible ways to rectify the difficulties that Tuck/Valarie is currently not dealing with. You have to remember that Sheila as not just picked out of a phone book she was recommended if I remember correctly.

Quote:

left on his own i don't think tuck will ever discover the wholes in his logic. even with somone gently nudging him. he needs sheila totake him by the collar again and force his nose into the proverbial pile of shit. then they can admit that it's there and that something needs to be done about it. he needs hrto bedirect to him. she's the expert and he's just the client. she knows a lot better than tuck what problems like his mean and what can be done about them. so instead of tuck beating himself up abut them and hiding from them, shiela needs to tell him, 'look, this is your problem. it's not that bad. it's NOT going o kill you. you need to do something about it. what is that going to be?'


I agree definately as Shelia is very smart and when Tuck/Val gets her lab reports back I know Sheila will be informed and it will be just one more thing that will tie it all together.

Quote:

oh well. that won't happen. they are too afraid of tuck facing things too face. and shiela thinks she got the big mystery out of the way, not knowing that it's only the tip of the tip of the iceburg. who knows what lurks in the heart of tuck....


Sheila knows, if you will look at her questions she not only ask and listens but also watches Tuck/Val's physical response. I mean how could you miss the physical discomfort from showing to a person trained in the art?


Doubt is a thief that often makes us fear to tread where we might have won --Shakespeare" --

-Vicki
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #701] Wed, 11 December 2002 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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i'm not sure whatyou people are talking about with the test results. the first time she will be taking to tuck about it he will have his parents in the room with him. and sure the parents won't let tuck out of it without accepting the results. and maybe even figureing out what he needs to do. but with his parents there. i think he's going to clam up. he's just going to hide eerything and just say that he needs more time to work things out. though sheila might want tuck to use that time to come out to his parents about the travis thing.

things move slowly in this story. though that is how things really happen in life. you don't just make huge decitions in a day. tuck is going to think about things for a very long time. probably all weekend. durring that time they arn't goign to let him out of thier sight. but it's unrealistic to expect anyone to make any decitions about thier life in just one or two hours. all they are going to be able to getout of him is a promis not to kill himself over the results.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #702] Wed, 11 December 2002 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maynard  is currently offline Maynard
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Doragoon - I agree with you that Tuck will probably clam up when his parents are in the room. But we still have some of a session that will conclude with the comimg chapter (out on Friday, I hope). And I think there will be another session before the one with the family. So with the current knowledge Sheila might probe a little deeper, know that something is coming up.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #705] Thu, 12 December 2002 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yellow  is currently offline yellow
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Time is good Smile

Though, could someone please tell me in which chapter his parents say they plan to drop-in? (I must have skimmed over it like a ditz)

[edit: thankyou for the replies]

-H

[Updated on: Fri, 13 December 2002 18:26]

Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #706] Thu, 12 December 2002 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jaime  is currently offline Jaime
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I maybe wrong but I think it was in the last chapter where Tuck and his Dad go to the Dr's office and he gets the first battery of test done or back. I know it is in the last few chapters.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #708] Fri, 13 December 2002 13:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maynard  is currently offline Maynard
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Quote:

"How about we meet, oh, Eugene, when's your therapy appointment?"
"Ten A.M. on Sat- Oh, no," I groaned.
"It'd be the best way, I think," she stated, and worse, Dad nodded.
"Everyone?" I found myself whining.
"I think Brian can stay home," Dad said. "At least for a while."


This is from the end of chapter 89.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #750] Tue, 14 January 2003 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maynard  is currently offline Maynard
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The following was posted by Any on Ellen's note section.

"Perhaps the story's current effort to see a future for Tuck that is successfully male and that excludes Val expresses an antipathy that is pretty common in people who suffer gender disphoria... For a while I thought that Ellen was floundering a bit in the story but now I think I am seeing a very important aspect of Tuck being developed -- it wouldn't be an epic journey if it was quick and easy heh heh.... Still, I gotta admit, I want more Travis too!"

Tuck is a developing person, so as all of have to do, he is searching for his idenity and role in society. But because he is a teenager he is still exploring his options. Choices made today reflect experiences of the past. The more experiences the broader the base for futher choices. We are seeing Ellen doing a wonder job of describing a person growing up with all the joys, conflicts, and stuggles that entails.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 January 2003 14:14]

Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #767] Sat, 25 January 2003 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KellyDahl  is currently offline KellyDahl
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Again I am a bit behind in the conversation here, but when someone said it isn't a logical conclusion for his therapist to jump to him wearing girls clothes. I think you forgot a bit of evidence that has already come out. Sheila alreday knows that Tuck has been dating Travis in some matter that is socially acceptable and that he has been seen with Travis by Travis's friends. Now that combined with the developing female body may lead to that conclusion. I myself wouldn't find that to be too much of a leap.

Kelly Dahl
In an hour of darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of insanity look to the madman to show the way.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #793] Fri, 07 February 2003 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KellyDahl  is currently offline KellyDahl
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I've been reading through the series again (I'm not sure how many times this makes it now). It just stikes me that with everything that's been happening to Tuck lately that after the family therapy sesion it may be about time to take up Uncle Lanier on that offer he made Tuck on the Fourth. Tuck's probally going to need the time out, no matter how those tests come back it's going to be some kind of affect on Tuck and he'll have to take some time to sit back and think on everything.

Kelly Dahl
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #794] Fri, 07 February 2003 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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KellyDahl wrote on Fri, 07 February 2003 09:42

I've been reading through the series again (I'm not sure how many times this makes it now). It just stikes me that with everything that's been happening to Tuck lately that after the family therapy sesion it may be about time to take up Uncle Lanier on that offer he made Tuck on the Fourth. Tuck's probally going to need the time out, no matter how those tests come back it's going to be some kind of affect on Tuck and he'll have to take some time to sit back and think on everything.

Kelly Dahl


Possibly, though what Tuck should do and what Tuck's going to do don't always (or even often?) turn out to be the same.

Tuck still thinks of himself as a guy with a medical problem whom circumstances keep pushing into this "Valerie" charade. I think (ep92 supports) that he still thinks this is something that can be fixed, and in a way that allows him to go "back" to being a normal guy or at most a gay guy.

I expect that it's unlikely that Tuck will be told that physical correction towards more male-normal is impossible - at the most extreme F2M-style treatments are going to be available and probably offered on a plate.

I reckon he's in for a shock if he tries that, and I doubt I'm alone in that, but anyway...

Lanier and Louisa et al might well provide the sort of setting to strip away the bullshit, but for that very reason Tuck may well seek unconsciously to avoid it.

Definite fanfic fodder anyway Twisted Evil but not by me - Ohio/Tristate is far removed enough, Louisiana is just too alien to me.


Rachel
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #795] Sat, 08 February 2003 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jane
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I must admit that I've been thinking along the same lines as Kelly that there could be an imminent visit to Uncle Lanier.

However it would be more in keeping with the medical profession that Tuck seek medical advice from a teaching hospital and these tend to be in the bigger cities. The reference by Bill Tucker that they had seen a specialist in New York at some point in the past may mean a visit to Amy. Confused


Jane
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #796] Sun, 09 February 2003 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KellyDahl  is currently offline KellyDahl
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Yeah I do have to agree the what Tuck should and does do are sledom the same thing. Actually he ha seems to have the habit of running from what he should do(just an interpretation).

Though on the fanfic idea could be an interesting story just don't look at me to write it. I'm not to impressed with my writing skills, and I don't really know anything about the area. Though the idea did bring a picture to mind,I know it's New Orleans and not Luisianna(sp?) but Tu/Val dressed up for Mardea Gras... Very Happy

Kelly Dahl
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #797] Wed, 12 February 2003 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Kelly: You had the right idea; New Orleans is the most populous city in the state of Louisiana.

And we can count on Tuck's family heading down there next Fourth of July, assuming Ellen gets that far -- a remodeling job at the Lanier home was all that prevented it this past year. (Of course, that misses Mardi Gras by several months.)

One thing, everyone: I took for granted (in another thread here) that Lanier and his family lived in the New Orleans area. But running a word check on the saga I can't find any explicit mention of either New Orleans or Louisiana (or any variant in dialect thereof). Can anyone find something?

Certainly Lanier's Cajun last name and his wife's gumbo recipe provide a strong indication that they're from that part of the country -- at least originally -- and Lanier's suggestion that Tuck run there next time he needs to escape, along with their only getting together once during the past year, implies that they live some distance away from Tuck's family.

On the other hand, the Lanier family seems to have driven into town (in multiple cars), and the sheer size of the barbecue equipment they brought (a grill "large enough to roast a calf whole" and a gumbo pot "about large enough to boil a four-year old") would seem to make the 1000-mile trip from New Orleans to Ohio/Indiana a major logistical undertaking. (Of course, that could explain why they normally go to Lanier's rather than Lanier coming there.)

Eric
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #798] Wed, 12 February 2003 09:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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i was almost certain his uncle lived in new york. i'd recomend checking the end of tuck season. i think tuck might have said where he lived when he was telling jane about him.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #799] Wed, 12 February 2003 15:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gareth  is currently offline Gareth
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The uncle who live in New York would be Amy's father
"Uncle" Lanier, I strongly suspect, is a psuedo-relative. Kinda like a family friend who gets called an Uncle or Aunt because they're really strong friends with your parents.

And after just re-reading chapter 45, I find this...

Quote:

02:23 14 Jun

"That was how you met him?" Him being my - all us Tuckerspawn's -
godfather, Arnold Lanier.
Dad nodded. "Big ol' black dude, almost no hair, muscles in his
FINGERS," he emphasized, "and he looks at me, and he said, 'Little puny,
but you'll do.' Naturally, still being seventeen and immensely stupid,
I asked him who he was calling puny-"



So, the Lanier family seem to not be blood relatives but something almost as close if not moreso.


Gareth
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #800] Thu, 13 February 2003 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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The Laniers are African-American; Tuck's family isn't.

(But there's a certain irony in the Tucker siblings having someone that Tuck decribes as a godfather, given their father's problems with organized religion.)

Eric
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #801] Thu, 13 February 2003 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jaime  is currently offline Jaime
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Thinking back to when Tuck Had his dancing with death on the rooftop and he and his Dad go out to the park in the rain from hell. I believe that Uncle Lanier was in Bills Platoon in Vietnam. Either as a platoon Sgt or a squad leader.
Re: Future Tuck - generally [message #831] Sat, 22 March 2003 04:43 Go to previous message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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The E/I axis of my profile varies from test to test.

I usually score as T on the third axis but occasionally as F and neither with much statical certainty.

One of my problems with the test is that I find it generally transparent and can willfully make it come out anyway I want.

Answering ambiguous questions "truthfully" and definitively is also hard for a devout doubter like me. Smile

- Erin
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