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Where Are We? [message #772] Sat, 01 February 2003 05:48 Go to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Annoying; I wrote a long message last weekend and lost it all when I hit "Upload File" instead of "Create Topic".

We try again...

What I'm trying to figure out is, if not literally where Tuck's story takes place (presumably if Ellen wanted to be specific about that she'd have done so by now), what kind of venue I should be visualizing.

We know, based on Amy's mother's phone call from New York, that it's in the Central time zone (though admittedly that's inconsistent with Los Angeles being just two hours away by plane and also with South Park on television at 10 p.m., since Central TV times are an hour earlier than Eastern/Pacific).

We can be reasonably sure that it's north of the Mason-Dixon line (when people drawl, it's for conversational effect, not normal speech; second person plural is "you" or, for clarity, "you all" or "all of you", but never "y'all"; we're told that the nearest wilderness is in Canada).

It's probably not in the Farm Belt, given Valerie's putdown of Iowa ("nobody asks questions about Iowa."), and the lack of 4-H clubs or agricultural courses at school. Food for Tuck's Sunday dinners seems to come from conventional grocers, paid for by credit card -- not produce stands or farmer's markets. And the topography isn't completely flat; there's a Kings Mountain theme park and a Red Bluff High School. We're also probably not in the extreme north, since there's no snow after February.

Obviously it's a good-sized community. There are multiple shopping malls and high schools (and specialty bookstores), at least one college with cultural events (chamber groups, Shakespeare) and student housing, a baseball stadium large enough that Tuck and Brian can escape into the crowd after getting hassled near the restroom, direct flights to Los Angeles and New York City, emergency helicopter medical service, plenty of medical specialists, troublesome rush hour traffic, multiple local television channels (the Boyz are monitoring at least three of them for coverage of their April Fool's Day activity), and affinity or therapy groups for a wide variety of conditions or problems. Except for Mike, none of Tuck's friends seems to be within convenient walking distance.

Yet it doesn't seem to be overwhelmingly large. The City Council is approachable enough for Debbie to get the permits for her summer snack operation. Our central characters keep running into people they know all over town. Kings Mountain seems to be the only place of its kind where local families can go on the Fourth of July. Dance venues aren't open all week. If there are major college or pro sports facilities other than the baseball stadium, we haven't encountered them yet (and the only jocks we've run into are the high school variety).

The major thing we haven't run into is anything like an inner city (with the possible exception of Tuck encountering a derelict while buying a bus ticket). Nobody shops downtown, only at regional shopping malls. If anybody's parents or siblings here work in the city center, we haven't visited them. When Tuck is hiding out in a business district after dark, it's a landscaped office park north of town.

Even more to the point, there doesn't seem to be anything resembling Crips-and-Bloods-type gang warfare: no matter how urban-guerrilla Tuck's friends' "paybacks" get, nobody official seems to be trying to tie them (or their victims) to street gang activity. McAllen High seems far more vulnerable to a future Columbine-type incident than, say, a jocks-vs-geeks riot (apparent provocation notwithstanding) or any kind of ethnic violence.

The lack of inner city activity would suggest that we're in the suburbs, except that not once so far has anyone suggested driving into town for any reason -- not when they go to an upscale restaurant, not to try to find dancing on weekdays, not when searching for Tuck in April, not when Tuck or Valerie or Ricky needs to find a shopping mall where they won't be recognized, not when Rachel's seeking classier dating activity.

There seem to be three alternatives here that I can see:
-- We're in a large city, but the venue's been simplified considerably for plot purposes;
-- We're in a medium-sized, predominantly middle-class city with a lot of amenities;
-- We're in the suburbs of someplace where the central city's so run down that it's avoided at all costs.

Anybody have a preference (or any better ideas)?

Eric
Re: Where Are We? [message #773] Sat, 01 February 2003 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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the topic of where tuck is from has been dicussed to death already. if i remember right, it was that they live in ohio, south of Cincinnati. maybe a little west of it too, but mostly south.

the plane trip is wierd. but i think it works, more or less.

one thing that helped that you missed is that kelly's father is a pilot so they have to be near an airport.

oh well. anyone know how the old debate went?
Re: Where Are We? [message #774] Sat, 01 February 2003 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Eric wrote on Sat, 01 February 2003 10:48


What I'm trying to figure out is, if not literally where Tuck's story takes place (presumably if Ellen wanted to be specific about that she'd have done so by now), what kind of venue I should be visualizing.


We've been having the same thoughts! You've been able to go into a bit more detail than me though as I don't even come from the US.

My best guess, and I missed the earlier debate Doragoon mentions so came to it independantly, is that it's in or near Cincinnati, in some suburban jungle or satellite town thereabouts, although that is contradicted (just) by the Central timezone references. On the other hand, they do go to King's Island theme park (not King's Mountain), which is a real place - the only named location I've been able to confirm on the Web, http://www.pki.com/ and which describes itself as being 24 miles north of Cincinnati. Some of the rides described as being there in Summer 1997 are still there; others have been replaced (eg: the Son of Beast has replaced The Beast.) Cincinnati is kind of close to the border with Indiana, which would resolve the timezone problem, but I don't know what big enough population centres might be close enough to the Ohio border at that point that they could reasonably cross over to go to King's Island for a day, and I don't remember any mention of crossing a state line or timezone border to get there. (And in any case "close" is a relative term in the US...)

On the other hand, there doesn't appear to be a Westcross Mall visible on the Web anywhere in the US, the only McAllen's High is in Southern Texas and the only Red Bluff is an elementary school in California. I'd guess those places are fictionalised as are, probably all the other non-chain establishments mentioned by name.

Let's just say when it came to checking state laws and regulations for the fanfic I'm writing, I chose to assume Ohio, even though I'm not being specific in the text either. If Ellen wants to gainsay that, she's gonna have to reveal more information! Smile

Quote:

We know, based on Amy's mother's phone call from New York, that it's in the Central time zone (though admittedly that's inconsistent with Los Angeles being just two hours away by plane


Actually I thought Debbie said they get two hours back on the journey; I took that to mean they cross westwards over two time zones which is consistent with them starting in Central time, isn't it?

Quote:

The major thing we haven't run into is anything like an inner city (with the possible exception of Tuck encountering a derelict while buying a bus ticket). Nobody shops downtown, only at regional shopping malls. If anybody's parents or siblings here work in the city center, we haven't visited them. When Tuck is hiding out in a business district after dark, it's a landscaped office park north of town.

Even more to the point, there doesn't seem to be anything resembling Crips-and-Bloods-type gang warfare: no matter how urban-guerrilla Tuck's friends' "paybacks" get, nobody official seems to be trying to tie them (or their victims) to street gang activity.


But they're nice white (mostly) middle-class kids... :->

Quote:

McAllen High seems far more vulnerable to a future Columbine-type incident than, say, a jocks-vs-geeks riot (apparent provocation notwithstanding) or any kind of ethnic violence.


There were race riots in Cincinnati in April 2001. (http://www.cincypost.com/news/riotarchive.html) As far as I can make out though, this seems to be fairly isolated - the only ones I can find reference to since those following Martin Luther King Jr's assassination - rather than anything like the norm.

I just got the impression they're in deepest darkest suburbia Smile Maybe they just don't go to the parts of the city that has such problems. They're easy enough to avoid as long as you're in the right economic class...

To illustrate with another random city: Where I live in Bristol, UK is just a mile or so away from an area called St. Pauls which is well known for being the local "crack city", yet I'd been living here at least a year before I even heard that Bristol has a serious inner city drugs problem. I don't go there, and it's not hard to avoid, if you live in a relatively nice middle-class area. Likewise if I needed to walk to the bus station I'd be walking through another seedy area which has a number of derelicts (buildings and people) and drunks on the street that generally I'd prefer to be driving straight through if I go in that direction at all - As it happens I don't need to go into the centre very often, so I don't, not because it's especially horrible in the centre itself, but more because it's a pain to drive and park there and public transport's a joke (and I'd have to walk through the aforementioned seedy area to get there on foot). When I do go, it's to the nice parts down by the Watershed and the nice shopping and restaurants up Clifton way. Smile There are nice malls, supermarkets, leisure complexes, restaurants et al around the outside just suited to a cossetted fearful suburbanite with a car like myself :-}. All this probably applies equally to a lot of cities in the developed world.


This is just to say that just because they don't encounter it, doesn't mean it's not there. It's just not the story Ellen's telling.


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #775] Sun, 02 February 2003 01:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Janet  is currently offline Janet
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I don't want to put too much of a damper on the Cincinnati idea, but it's a little difficult to go too far south of there and still stay in the state of Ohio. Their major airport now is across the river in Kentucky.

Another possibility is Indianapolis. It's only about a 90 minute drive from Cincinnati, so it is within easy driving distance.

Also, consider that Indiana has some really peculiar time zone rules. Most of Indiana is on Eastern Standard time all year 'round. During the winter, they are on the same time as the east coast (EST). In the summer, they are on the same time as the Central zone (CDT). There are some counties (around Evansville, near Champaign, IL and Chicago) that are on Central time and change to daylight time like most of the nation.

This could help explain some of the seeming time inconsistencies.

The bottom line, though (IMHO), is that the location is deliberately ambiguous, and that's the way that Ellen wants it.

Janet


Janet

All that glitters is not Iron Pyrite
Re: Where Are We? [message #776] Sun, 02 February 2003 02:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cate
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The chapters dealing with Tuck's backpacking vacation made mention of the camping area as being about a 3 hour drive.
Since Ellen provided a specific park east of Cinci; that is way less than a 3 hour drive. This would seem to leave that city out as the location for "Tuckerville". However, a bit south of Toledo would fill the bill. 3hrs 15 min there to Cinci according to Mapquest, and I'd bet Bill Tucker isn't a "little-old-man" behind the wheel. That would make south of Toledo doable to that park in around 3 hrs.

If you assume a slight name change, Cedar Pointe would be close enuff for a day trip with the kiddies. Detroit, Cleveland or Wright-Patterson airbase could be possibles for Kelly's dad to fly out of professionally.

Susan being a broadcast major at a school with medical library good enuff for Tuck to search within bus distance could be most of the big Ten campuses, Wright State or Case-Western (even Wayne State in Detroit).

That makes Toledo-south a viable option.

Anymore suggestions?

Cate
Re: Where Are We? [message #779] Sun, 02 February 2003 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Janet wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 06:13

I don't want to put too much of a damper on the Cincinnati idea, but it's a little difficult to go too far south of there and still stay in the state of Ohio. Their major airport now is across the river in Kentucky.

Another possibility is Indianapolis. It's only about a 90 minute drive from Cincinnati, so it is within easy driving distance.


Hmm. They drive to King's Island in about 75 minutes and drive back in 40 minutes. I was reckoning that was consistent with driving across a city hitting the morning rush hour but missing the evening one. Travis was driving, but I don't recall his driving as being especially - er - enthusiastic. Smile

Am I sad or what? Smile

BTW, Toledo to King's Island would take even longer...

Quote:

The bottom line, though (IMHO), is that the location is deliberately ambiguous, and that's the way that Ellen wants it.


True, but vexing for fanfic authors :-} I wouldn't entirely put it beyond Ellen to have ensured that every possible candidate location has some factoid that contradicts it being the one. Smile

Of course this could be the real reason why it all takes place in the suburbs: City centres tend to have individuality, a specific local culture and visible history, whereas the suburbs, the out-of-town retail parks, malls et al are much more anonymous and homogenised. Makes it easier to be nonspecific. I'd guess it would be really hard to write a sequence in the city centre without giving something away that positively identifies the city.

There are probably some legal aspects too. I mean, not as far as public spaces are concerned, but you couldn't write a story like this set in a real-life high school without some risk of litigation. This may also apply, though to a lesser extent, to malls and suchlike.

It can make it sometimes appear as if they're living in a bubble though.


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #780] Sun, 02 February 2003 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Janet  is currently offline Janet
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Quote:

True, but vexing for fanfic authors :-} I wouldn't entirely put it beyond Ellen to have ensured that every possible candidate location has some factoid that contradicts it being the one. Smile



*smiles* Yes, that's true.

I would guess that 'Tuckville' is a composite of a number of locations. That best describes the various Real Life(TM) references made in the story.

If I were writing a fan-fic (and I would have done already, but I haven't had a really good idea, yet), I would be careful not to mess too much with existing places/organizations, but would not hesitate to 'add' whatever I thought were necessary to satisfy the story requirement.

So, if that's what you have in mind, go for it. If you need 'insider' information on a particular location on this side of 'the pond', I'm sure that a request here will get you all the 'local colour' you require.


Janet

All that glitters is not Iron Pyrite
Re: Where Are We? [message #782] Sun, 02 February 2003 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Janet wrote on Sun, 02 February 2003 19:25

Quote:

True, but vexing for fanfic authors :-} I wouldn't entirely put it beyond Ellen to have ensured that every possible candidate location has some factoid that contradicts it being the one. Smile



*smiles* Yes, that's true.

I would guess that 'Tuckville' is a composite of a number of locations. That best describes the various Real Life(TM) references made in the story.

If I were writing a fan-fic (and I would have done already, but I haven't had a really good idea, yet), I would be careful not to mess too much with existing places/organizations, but would not hesitate to 'add' whatever I thought were necessary to satisfy the story requirement.

So, if that's what you have in mind, go for it. If you need 'insider' information on a particular location on this side of 'the pond', I'm sure that a request here will get you all the 'local colour' you require.



Well, I'd rather not here because it would spoiler it for too many people, but people who find their way onto the IRC channel tend to get quizzed on stuff. Wherever it is exactly, I think you live a lot closer to the setting of Tuck than anyone else whose brains I've been able to pick. I was up until 6am this morning writing, so am currently shifted round more or less to Central time anyway (divergent timezones being the main problem).

Your earlier post already helped in that I realised I had distances all wrong. Knowing that the UK is small and the US is big, I'd overcompensated and thought that distances were way bigger than they were. Serves me right for depending on maps available on the web.

Other help I'll need on the revision cycle includes someone to watch that dialect and idiomatics aren't too far out. (I don't mind a little bit out - a slight English accent is allowable - but if it screams to you "no-one who grew up here would ever say that!" then I need to know!)

First I've got to reach the ending...

In the end I found being utterly nonspecific about location was being a bit of a strain. I was using Cincinnati internally as a reference point because it seems to be contradicted the least if you see what I mean. So it gave me some form of anchor. I'd bet Ellen has a real place in mind too, she's just obfuscating it. Grr.

I'd hit a block and I was googling and found something that gave me an idea that led to a nice reveal on a character Ellen hasn't really let us get to know well yet Smile so I'm kind of loath to let that go... It could still plausibly be somewhere else, but still...


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #783] Sun, 02 February 2003 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maynard  is currently offline Maynard
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Rachel, I remember the earlier discussion and the general location that was agreed on was Dayton, Ohio. A big city but not as big as Cincinnati.
Perhaps you can check out websites on that area.
Re: Where Are We? [message #784] Sun, 02 February 2003 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maynard  is currently offline Maynard
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Just another note. Remember that a flight from Central Time Zone to Los Angeles may be four hours real time but only two hours on your watch. That is you leave at 10am CST and arrive at 12pm PST but in GMT it would be like from 6am to 10am.
I probably messed it up but perhaps this was the two hours that were referred to as the trip time.
Re: Where Are We? [message #785] Mon, 03 February 2003 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Re the flight time, here's the quote:

*** 20:18 4 Jun
Debbie had showed up at my place for once[...]

“Anyway, we get to the airport at eight, and then arrive in California about the same time, if we get lucky and there aren’t any delays. Sorry about it being so late, but it was cheaper that way.”


It does seem as though something got left out of (or immediately preceding) the quote; it's not even "we take off at eight". And there's something of a non sequitur in Debbie's apology for flying so late if she intended to get out (and in) at 8 p.m.. It's as though Ellen had intended to have them get to the hotel around two in the morning but decided that the story worked better if they met all the unexpected locals that night rather than after they awoke the next morning.

The more specific reference to a two-hour time difference was in an earlier segment:

*** 18:40 28 May
“So anyway,” Debbie said over the sound of dish washing, “I just realized today that I hadn’t talked to you or anything about next weekend...” She trailed off kind of funny, and when I looked up, she was staring at something that wasn’t there. “Deb?” She started. “What’s up?” She took a deep breath, and let it out raggedly. “I hate flying,” she explained. “A lot.”
*** 18:54 28 May
“Anyway, so everything’s confirmed, we get there Thursday night sometime, getting two hours back, take a cab to the hotel since they won’t let me rent a car,” she sounded peeved at that, “and we have reservations for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights. AND,” she held up a finger, “we also have a reserved booth space, ten feet worth, and a couple extra chairs on reserve too, since we’re each going to need two.”


[ellipsis was in the quotation; nothing's omitted]

As someone noted, that would work equally well with portions of Indiana that remain on Standard Time all year, assuming they still exist, as it would with venues actually in the Central time zone. (When I collected airline and railroad timetables as a kid years ago, I recall Fort Wayne being an hour out of synch. But I thought that ended some years back.)

Eric
Re: Where Are We? [message #786] Mon, 03 February 2003 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Maynard wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 03:09

Rachel, I remember the earlier discussion and the general location that was agreed on was Dayton, Ohio. A big city but not as big as Cincinnati.
Perhaps you can check out websites on that area.


hehe - entirely contradicting someone else's memory of the same discussion that it was decided to be south of Cincinnati!

Oh what fun!


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #788] Mon, 03 February 2003 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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BethR wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 18:25

Well, if you look back in Ellen's Guestbook archives to almost exactly a year ago, you will see this discussion.


(snip)

Found it, though not the camping link you mention.

I would just observe that judging journey times by drawing circles on a map is likely to be wildly inaccurate, unless in the US you always have nice clear well-maintained roads with no rush hour traffic jams or disruptive road-works. Forgive me, but I got the impression that wasn't so. Twisted Evil

A similar analysis could be done using route-finding systems which would take some account of that, but that would be pretty labour-intensive. Frankly to get that obsessed is just to miss what we're reading the stories for. Smile I have an excuse...

Also noting that someone else cites a Tucky Season reference that Tuck's home city has a population of 50,000.

That's tiny. And would rule out Cincinnati, Columbus, Dayton, Cleveland and Toledo straight away, meaning it's some little place. I'd have thought that too small to support the kind of suburban sprawl and malls etc. that form the backdrop of the story, unless it's essentially a suburb or satellite town of a much larger city anyway.

I'm not checking it now, but I wonder if that was actually a reference to the population of the town where Tucky Season is set. Seems about the right size for that.

Quote:

I find it interesting that Ellen hasn't weighed in on the subject. I bet she's getting a chuckle out of keeping us guessing. Smile


Hell with it. Ellen's being contradictory and/or obfuscatory, so if fanfic writers end up contradicting each other too she's only got herself to blame (presuming as one shouldn't that that wasn't her plan all along). Smile I allowed a little specificity to creep in in order to get around a block, and while I could excise it, it would weaken the moment, so there. Twisted Evil

Argh, so close! Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival played Much Ado About Nothing in their 1997-98 season, but not in September, when Tuck saw it. It was performed the following April. Bah. Bah, I say. Actually can't find any production of it in the general area (ie: Ohio) at the right time; the above is the closest though. It's probably a coincidence. It's also possible Ellen remembered it was playing that season, but forgot when in the season... Twisted Evil I mean, that's no greater margin of error than is involved in any of the other theories, right? Twisted Evil


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #789] Mon, 03 February 2003 16:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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rachel.greenham wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 20:56

Argh, so close! Cincinnati Shakespeare Festival played Much Ado About Nothing in their 1997-98 season, but not in September, when Tuck saw it.


Actually what is playing right at the time the main story is currently going through, until 12th October, is Hamlet, with an actress playing the lead... Smile


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #790] Mon, 03 February 2003 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Janet  is currently offline Janet
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rachel.greenham wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 14:56


(snip)

I would just observe that judging journey times by drawing circles on a map is likely to be wildly inaccurate, unless in the US you always have nice clear well-maintained roads with no rush hour traffic jams or disruptive road-works. Forgive me, but I got the impression that wasn't so. Twisted Evil




Most Interstate Highways in the US are quite similar to the dual carriageways in the UK (the 'M' highways). Depending on the state and relative distance to large populated areas, the speed limit can be from 55 to 75 miles per hour. With I-75 running from Indy to Cincy, I-75 from Dayton to Cincy, and I-70 between Dayton and Indy, the area can be traversed fairly quickly, even if one follows the speed limit. Besides, by US standards, it's not that big of an area. =)

With US airlines using hubs these days, the most likely airport with direct flights to the West Coast would be Cincy. Other 'nearby' hub airports would be Chicago, Detriot, or St. Louis.

That's probably more information than you wanted, but there it is.


Janet

All that glitters is not Iron Pyrite
Re: Where Are We? [message #791] Tue, 04 February 2003 08:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Janet wrote on Tue, 04 February 2003 02:36

rachel.greenham wrote on Mon, 03 February 2003 14:56


(snip)

I would just observe that judging journey times by drawing circles on a map is likely to be wildly inaccurate, unless in the US you always have nice clear well-maintained roads with no rush hour traffic jams or disruptive road-works. Forgive me, but I got the impression that wasn't so. Twisted Evil




Most Interstate Highways in the US are quite similar to the dual carriageways in the UK (the 'M' highways).



"Motorways". Smile And they can be pretty variable. Around cities for instance, the M5/M4/M32 interchange near Bristol, the M6 past Birmingham, and of course the M25 London Orbital Car Park the going can be quite slow at rush hour.

Besides, I was more thinking about getting around inside the cities, getting from one side to another etc.


Rachel
Re: Where Are We? [message #816] Mon, 10 March 2003 10:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jaime  is currently offline Jaime
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OK, I was going to agree that Tuck is framed in the Ohio Valley somewhere but a thought has been nagging. I dont remember where in the states the radio stations call signs change for a W to a K as in WKRP to KOMO. And also I havent had the time lately to re read Tuck (reality really interferes sometimes) BUT arent they using a KISS (the silly school Radio) when they take over the intercom system at the HS?
Re: Where Are We? [message #817] Mon, 10 March 2003 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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KISS sounds better than WISS. Smile

- Erin
Re: Where Are We? [message #818] Mon, 10 March 2003 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Janet  is currently offline Janet
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I don't know if it still applies, but the dividing line between the W and K station designations was the Mississippi River. If memory serves, things get a little wierd in Minneapolis as they have stations with K and W designations.

I am not sure that the division still applies, though.

For something like a small, closed-circuit setup like in a highschool, FCC designations would not necessarily apply. It would seem to me that the kids would want to keep it simple... =)


Janet

All that glitters is not Iron Pyrite
Re: Where Are We? [message #1643] Sun, 25 January 2004 13:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cate
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The discussion about the Tucker's house got me thinking again about just where it was located. We know it is at most a 40 minute drive from Kings Island, has two (or more) high schools, and is fairly close to a commercial airport (Kelly's pilot dad). The airport part of it would imply a proximity to Dayton, or Cincinnati. Two or more high schools probably means a population of 35-50,000 minimum.
King's Island within 40 minutes mean's a 40 mile radius. The obvious candidate is Cinci; but I lean towards Ellen eschewing the obvious choice.
Dayton is the next biggest town in the area; but is about 60 miles from Cincinnati & King's Island. If you're in the southernmost reaches of Dayton; and drive like a maniac it is still marginally possible (but not probable).
That leaves one final candidate, Middleton, Ohio. It is halfway between Cinci & Dayton. That would make it an easy drive to King's Island. Kelly's dad the commercial pilot could easily commute to Cincinnati, or Dayton's Wright-Patterson. Population just over 50,000. Four high schools are in the school district. And, nearby colleges and trade schools includes CAROUSEL BEAUTY COLLEGE! (Tuck's post-graduate beauty school)
All of these factors make my vote for "Tuckerville" Middleton. This would place Tuck in Children's Hospital of Dayton, or Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center if she was badly injured in the attack.
Oh, and back to the original thought about the Tuckers house, I felt that it was an old house built in the 40's or early 50's at the latest. That would make the earlier guess of Mission (Craftsman) style a part good match with my impression. Oh, and there just have to be a couple of big old elm trees one in the front, and at the side near Tuck's bedroom window.
Re: Where Are We? [message #2885] Thu, 02 December 2004 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Another interesting piece of info:

On May 24, Tuck was at home (with Debbie) at 11:37. At 12:12 he says goodby to Debbie (apparently still at home, it wouldn't make sense to go somewhere else), before going to pick up Amy. At 13:09 -- just 57 minutes later -- they are seeing Amy coming out of the boarding tunnel at the airport,

They only got back home at 14:27 (78 minutes later), which at first seems to imply a longer trip (more than one hour). However, there's some wait time involved between a person appearing in the boarding tunnel and actually getting her luggage and meeting the waiting relatives -- it seems they always keep my suitcase for the end...

When Amy went back (August 14), they were still at the dinner table at 18:51 (and probably 18:54), but they were already passing through the metal detectors at the airport at 20:24.

Then they start going back at 21:04 and apparently are already home at 21:48.

This means that it's at least possible to go from the airport to the Tuckers' in 44 minutes. Probably less, considering that the "endpoints" were not inside the car, but from the terminal building to the basement room. I would guess around 35 minutes travel time, tops. The longer times can be explained by wait time, stuff not explicitly told by Ellen and such. I don't think it would be much less than that, though.

So, we have a new reference here: The Tuckers' home is about 30-35 minutes from an airport with flights to/from New York. I know exactly nothing about airports in this area, but I hope people more knowledgeable than me can use this info to close a bit more the possible locus of the story.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Where Are We? [message #2888] Fri, 03 December 2004 22:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
Messages: 695
Registered: August 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
Well, there *are* large cities with a "downtown" that's ignorable. I grew up in one. Spokane, WA.

Downtown is smaller than a lot of malls.

A friend called it "the biggest small town I ever saw".

So I have no problems with the idea of other cities being like that.
Re: Where Are We? [message #7925] Sun, 02 June 2013 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne  is currently offline Anne
Messages: 355
Registered: April 2012
Senior Member
I'm rereading the saga for the n+1 time and came across this that I missed previously in chapter 133.

"I'm hoping it'll be good," Pam remarked, "but it's the Cincinnati
Ballet, so it ought to be. They're pretty good."

I don't know if the Cincinnati Ballet will put on performances outside of Cincinnati but I'd bet that they won't normally... Especially for something like Swan Lake.
Re: Where Are We? [message #7927] Mon, 03 June 2013 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Desiree99  is currently offline Desiree99
Messages: 24
Registered: March 2013
Location: So Cal
Junior Member
well Los Angeles Ballet TG would have performances in orange county every so often as well a OCBTG would perform in Santa Barbara

So considering the area around Cincinnati, the venues they may perform at could be as far south as Miami(that said due to a visit to Jacksonville with the twins, and they wished to see some ballet there and we were all very disappointed), the south not being a hot bed of Ballet Groups and possible as far west as St. Louis.

So yes it does shrink the probable area down but I prefer think of where Tuck Lives as Any town, of course it is definitively not Newport Beach California.

Goddess Bless You All

Love Desiree
Re: Where Are We? [message #7930] Mon, 03 June 2013 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
Messages: 440
Registered: October 2003
Location: São Paulo, Brazil
Senior Member
General consensus for a while has been that it's somewhere around the Cincinnati area, but probably not in Cincinnati itself -- it feels more suburban. There are numerous hints regarding that, the King's Island theme park being probably one of the most important and hard to ignore.

Some of us have been trying to assemble obscure hints in order to pin down the location better, but with little success and some heated discussions.

My personal pet theory is that the story takes place in southern Indiana, in a Cincinatti suburb, like (say) Lawrenceburg. That's because of some considerations involving Amy's mom getting confused about the time difference from New York -- which would make no sense at all if they were in Ohio or Kentucky (there's *no* difference from Ohio/Kentucky to NY, but the difference from Indiana to NY changed depending on the time of the year back in 1996/7, due to Indiana not following DST). There are a few problems with this theory, but I don't think they are too serious. Others disagree with me, though.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Where Are We? [message #8387] Fri, 22 November 2013 07:30 Go to previous message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
Messages: 641
Registered: January 2003
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
We did this on another thread (either Where Are We #2 or the one connected to the chapter). The presence of Deighton University suggests Dayton, Ohio (though there's no city/town that's consistent with everything in the story).

And as it happens, on that exact date in the year the chapter was published, the Cincinnati ballet was performing in Dayton.

So yes, the ballet does take their show on the road in the area.

Eric
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