Home » Tuck Talk » Chapter by Chapter » Chapter 105 is here
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2388] Wed, 22 September 2004 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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umm, doesn't tuck have testicles, but they just havn't decended yet? i do belive that's what everyone's said. there has been NOTHING to indicate tuck doesn't have any testicles.

that being true, if you were to remove the ovary and start tuck on testosterone, the testicles SHOULD start producing sperm like usual. it might even spur them into producing thier own testosterone. and THAT is tuck's best hope of having children. and it requires a lot less medical intervention than egg harvesting.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2389] Wed, 22 September 2004 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
maltor  is currently offline maltor
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Doragoon wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 00:10

umm, doesn't tuck have testicles, but they just havn't decended yet? i do belive that's what everyone's said. there has been NOTHING to indicate tuck doesn't have any testicles.


Actually, it's been stated that he does NOT have any TESTES.

16:27 25 Sep - From episode 96: Tuck It All Off

What Mom drew this time looked like she'd superimposed the previous two, male and female, on top of each other, then erased lines randomly.

Which was a rough analogy of what had happened to me.

"External penis," Mom pointed out, "no testes, a small scrotum. Urethra goes through the penis, though there's some question about whether he started with it there."

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2390] Wed, 22 September 2004 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Doragoon wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 21:10

umm, doesn't tuck have testicles, but they just havn't decended yet? i do belive that's what everyone's said. there has been NOTHING to indicate tuck doesn't have any testicles.

16:27 25 Sep


"External penis," Mom pointed out, "no testes, a small scrotum. Urethra goes through the penis, though there's some question about whether he started with it there."


So, no, Tuck does not have testicles. (I'm afraid that just posting the quote like this may seem a little rude or hostile, but I really don't have anything meaningful to add beyond that. Doragoon, please accept my apologies if it comes across like that. I really, really don't want it to, but I don't know how to improve the post so it doesn't, other that this long winded explination/ preemptive apology. Sorry.)
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2396] Wed, 22 September 2004 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

So, no, Tuck does not have testicles.


wow, i was wronge. i thought i remembered reading that he didn't have any, but then in my lastest re-read i didn't remember reading it. *sigh* i'm sorry. i have dishonored myself. i shall comit i shall not return untill i can redeem my honor.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2397] Wed, 22 September 2004 09:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 23:22


[...] and I can see Paul Dobson issuing a HS diploma in the current situation.

I don't think it's up to him; Tuck would have to qualify for a diploma based upon the state's School Board policies; and then it's not up to Dobson either, because the state or local district would issue it.


Ellen
nosig

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2408] Wed, 22 September 2004 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

I don't think it's up to him; Tuck would have to qualify for a diploma based upon the state's School Board policies; and then it's not up to Dobson either, because the state or local district would issue it.


then is there a chance that if tuck is recovering in the hospital for too long that the state school board could do like what nickerson tried to do to ellen? that possibly tuck could be held back for missing too much school and not meeting the requirments?

something like that happened to me, luckily i was too young to relise how much it sucked. but what options might tuck have if that happened?

maybe we should look up ohio school board regulation thingys... see how many excused absences a studant can have.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2409] Thu, 23 September 2004 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raadsel  is currently offline Raadsel
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Quote:

then is there a chance that if tuck is recovering in the hospital for too long that the state school board could do like what nickerson tried to do to ellen? that possibly tuck could be held back for missing too much school and not meeting the requirments?


First, Nickerson punished Ellen since she attempted suicide, for skipping school. In this case Tuck was nearly murdered on the school grounds. I can't see the school board trying to hold Tuck back, not unless he was going to be completely incapacitated -- unable to do any schoolwork -- for an extended length (probably four months or more). My guess is that they, instead, will offer to provide the Tuckers any help they may need for Tuck to catch up with his classes.

As we saw with the hospital, I'm guessing that unless the school board does everything (reasonable) the Tuckers want them to do that we will see Mr. Tucker again making threats of legal action. There is a good case to be made that the school overlooked, if not even fostered, the atmosphere and intimidation that Tuck faced. Additionally, a case can be made that the school knew that Tuck and his friends were being harassed prior to the final attack and did too little, too late to prevent Tuck's injuries.

I'm among those that don't know quite what idea Debbie is brewing with the G 'n' T students but I'm sure that her scheme will further insure that nothing is done to hold Tuck back.

Should Tuck return to a school, especially were he to start going as Valerie, I can see them choosing to sit him out a year. She then has the advantage of being a different class than Tuck was, helping to make Valerie different from Tuck and can start as a new student at the beginning of the school year. I don't really see that happening but I've been surprised before.

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2411] Thu, 23 September 2004 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

First, Nickerson punished Ellen since she attempted suicide, for skipping school.


he basicly said that being hospitolised for an atempted suicide wasn't an excused absence as defined by 3321.04. this is technicly true unless it's proven that being suicidal is a "mental condition does not permit attendance at school or a special education program during such period". and even then a physician/phyciatrist would have to certify it in writing. that's probably how dobson was able to get it overturned.

although, a lot of this stuff basicly says, 'it's up to the principal'.


now onto tuck. tuck could be dropped from school if he's out for 10 days in a row, or a total of 15 days for the semester or term.

now these are probably all excused absences as defined by 3301-51-13. but that only seems to mean that tuck could make up the days in question (possibly summer school). i think 3321.04 is the one that deturmins weather tuck is still legaly a student and able to graduate and stuff.


i don't know... i'm not a lawyer, i don't understand how these laws interact with eachother. if someone can understand all this please step forward becouse i sure can't.

and what's this about students loosing thier drivers liscence becouse of absences? it would suck if tuck couldn't drive to work becouse of this.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2412] Thu, 23 September 2004 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cate
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General consensus has the Tucker abode somewhere in south-central Ohio. That means if Tuck wasn't taken to a pediatric hospital immediately, that a transfer to one (either in Cinci or Dayton) would be on the near horizon.
Pediatric hospitals usually have some sort of teacher-in-hospital arrangement to allow patients on extended stays to keep up with their schooling in an accredited program. This would allow Tuck to avoid the situation Prickerson tried to saddle Ellen with the previous winter.
In regard to the laptop's phone-home protocol, I seem to remember Bill had to burn a chip to accomplish the task. So, isn't it logical that Bill would know exactly what will happen, and what to do at that time? MMMMMmmmmm? <in best Mr. Garrison voice>
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2414] Thu, 23 September 2004 04:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackfrost  is currently offline Jackfrost
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Cate wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 22:48

In regard to the laptop's phone-home protocol, I seem to remember Bill had to burn a chip to accomplish the task. So, isn't it logical that Bill would know exactly what will happen, and what to do at that time? MMMMMmmmmm? <in best Mr. Garrison voice>


If i rember what i read and infer correctly the customized bios that Tuck created is for the stealth dual-booting of the laptop. He was basily created a firmware dual-boot so that without intervation the laptop would boot into Windoze and not his Linux partiton.

The phone home program was being tested on Tuck's home Windoze box if i rember right. So it is software which realy wouldn't need a new bios. If fact i reamber seeing and eps of of a PBS computer show in the late 90's were they showed a phone home type system. The guy showing it said the only way to get rid of the program was to replace the harddrive and as it was at a low enough level to not be wiped by a disk reformat, and that the system did not need any type of special hardware.


Graduate of Red Bluff High School. No, really I would not lie about something like that. LMAO when that came up as the name of one of the schools.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2415] Thu, 23 September 2004 05:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Actually, it could be easily wiped by FDISK /MBR. That rewrites the partition table.

reformatting using the Format command doesn't destroy very much. Format /u wipes out the data in the partition being formatted, but doesn't touch the MBR of the drive. FDISK /MBR from a write protected floppy will clean the MBR. Then deleting and recreating the partitions will deal with the rest of it fairly well.

The custom BIOS would hide the guts of the program in the extra space in the PROM. And only use the HD for storing info temporarily, probably in a chunk of drive marked as bad sectors. Smile

How do I know all this?

I've been at this for a while. I disassembled the BIOS in my TRS-80 Model III and reported the source of a rather annoying bug (trying to print a grave accent (60h) always came out as a @ (40h)). Seems they had a lookup table in one of the ROMs, with a 1-bit error in one location. <sigh>

When they finally corrected it (no announcement, but I just kept running a test program on the new systems at the local computer center) I order a replacement ROM specifying the checksum of the updated ROM. I swapped it in myself, and no more problems.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2416] Thu, 23 September 2004 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackfrost  is currently offline Jackfrost
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Brooke wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 02:58

Actually, it could be easily wiped by FDISK /MBR. That rewrites the partition table.

reformatting using the Format command doesn't destroy very much. Format /u wipes out the data in the partition being formatted, but doesn't touch the MBR of the drive. FDISK /MBR from a write protected floppy will clean the MBR. Then deleting and recreating the partitions will deal with the rest of it fairly well.

The custom BIOS would hide the guts of the program in the extra space in the PROM. And only use the HD for storing info temporarily, probably in a chunk of drive marked as bad sectors.


Well i never said it wasn't possible just that it wasn't necessarily necessary for the BIOS to be reburnt for the phone home system to work, but defiantly necessary for the stealth dual-boot. i thought i remembered that Tuck was working on the two projects independently but at the same time. i could be wrong and if i am i do apologies.

A quick google search found four systems that will do a phone home type of thing for laptop protection; zTrace, Lucira, CyberAngel, and LapTrak.


Graduate of Red Bluff High School. No, really I would not lie about something like that. LMAO when that came up as the name of one of the schools.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2427] Fri, 24 September 2004 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jackfrost  is currently offline Jackfrost
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Strange idea just came to me while rereading 105.

Quote:

Jody finally couldn't stand it any more, and found the student directory, looked up the number, and dialed.

***
"The fuck?" Mike complained as the phone computer flashed a number and "MARTIN ROSS" at him in big red letters. "Who..."
<REVERSE LOOKUP - MATCH - JODY MARTIN/CLASS 98, SCHOOL DIRECTORY>
"Jeezus," Mike commented in awe. "You leave him alone for a few hours, and he writes another application."
"How's he do that?" Kelly asked.
"And why is SHE calling here?" Mike mused.

***
Jody put the phone down, not sure who to leave a message to, and not sure this was a good idea after all. *But he's gotta be out of the hospital by now, right? I mean, nobody hit him THAT hard.



If our remorseful cheerleader called Tuck's room phone is she going to start to wonder who the Val is on the list of voicemail boxes?


Graduate of Red Bluff High School. No, really I would not lie about something like that. LMAO when that came up as the name of one of the schools.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2432] Fri, 24 September 2004 06:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Jackfrost wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 21:11


...If our remorseful cheerleader called Tuck's room phone is she going to start to wonder who the Val is on the list of voicemail boxes?


Whatever her state of confusion, I can't see where Val's name there would set off any questions for her. There's no reason she would know much of anything about Tuck's family, so Val could be a sister, his mother, or anybody. Jody would know in any case that she's not leaving a message for Valerie, even if she couldn't figure out how to leave one for Tuck (whose name and voice, we've been told, aren't on the message tape).

It's tangential to your question, but I've been wondering about that voicemail system myself -- mostly why Tuck never got around to deleting the Val box. It was only there for Jack, and after the two of them discussed matters, it wouldn't have been any problem for Jack to leave messages from then on in Tuck's box. In fact, we find out later that Tuck hasn't been hearing Jack's messages because Jack continued to use the Valerie box (though Valerie's box is still there and Tuck can retrieve the messages once he realizes where they are). I'm also a little surprised that members of the Pack, offered a box for Valerie as an alternative, wouldn't have been leaving messages in that box relating specifically to Valerie activities, like the sleepovers.

Caller ID isn't infallible as a method for deciding whether it's Tuck or Val who should be answering the phone. So Val's quite sensible in not giving the phone number to Travis or to the Parkers, and I'm reasonably sure she didn't have any plans to do so that would justify leaving the Valerie message box up for them.

It seems to me that the box's continued existence doesn't make much sense from either a personality or plot standpoint: Tuck no longer has any use for that box and had recognized when he set it up that it was a liability, and Ellen no longer needs it as a possible source of exposure for Tuck.

(Maybe it's just me -- the alternate-chapter people seem to have thought otherwise -- but exposing Val's identity to anyone now via the message box strikes me as a cheap trick, not a legitimate plot turn. I guess it stems from my thinking that the Valerie box shouldn't be there now.)

I'd think that you'd be right about Tuck providing "a list of voicemail boxes" as a misdirection: something like "To leave a message for the owner, press 1; for Britney, press 2; for Justin, press 3; for Valerie, press 4; for Enrique, press 5," with only the 1 and 4 boxes set up to keep voicemail, and using names for the others that couldn't remotely be connected to Tuck or Val's real friends or the Tucker family. (I'm pretty sure that the dummy names I chose are anachronistic for 1997. But you get the idea.) Even though we didn't know it before based on the narrative, the fact, as you brought up, that there was enough in the message instructions to confuse Jody would suggest it. (Whatever her intelligence level might be, I find it hard to imagine a sociable teenage girl who'd have trouble with voicemail in general.)

But if Tuck had actually done it that way, I'm surprised that Mike's phone message that twitted Tuck about the Valerie box didn't mention it. (I don't believe it's possible that any dummy boxes had been set up before Valerie was added, based on the way Tuck described the process.)

Eric
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2439] Sat, 25 September 2004 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BethR  is currently offline BethR
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OtherEric wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 01:46

Sarah thinks that cops usually aren't too pleased to see her, either. I know there just has to be a fascinating story behind that which I really can't give a crap about until we know Tuck's going to be OK.


One of these days I'm going to relocae tbe "grep" for wintel that Ellen once mentioned in her journal. When I do, I'll look up the reference that Valerie made about her mom when describing her to Mrs. Parker.

That description included Valerie saying that she believed her mom had perhaps been in the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) or even the Weathermen (a.k.a. the Weather Underground). Either way, having that in her background would tend to make her wary of the police and distrust them... which I'm certain would cause the cops none too pleased to see her, either.


Enjoy!


Beth R
Dallas, TX, USA
http://www.genderweb.org/~bethr
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2440] Sat, 25 September 2004 04:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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If you are running Win 98 or ME, use the "find" command on the start menu. On XP, use the "search" command. Either will let you search for a string inside files in the directories you tell it to check.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2441] Sat, 25 September 2004 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BethR  is currently offline BethR
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 03:58

On XP, use the "search" command.


Zathras says ... "Not the one!"

Yes, those are rudimentary text searching tools, but they're pale shadows of the true grep command that Ellen recommended. I had installed that one on my previous computer, but haven't found it again due to entirely too many hits for the wrong thing when using search engines.

You know... real grep... as in having the standard set of switches and the use of standard regexp template format, etc.

But for the basics, "search" does OK.

Enjoy!


Beth R
Dallas, TX, USA
http://www.genderweb.org/~bethr
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2442] Sat, 25 September 2004 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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BethR wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 00:49

OtherEric wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 01:46

Sarah thinks that cops usually aren't too pleased to see her, either. I know there just has to be a fascinating story behind that which I really can't give a crap about until we know Tuck's going to be OK.


One of these days I'm going to relocae tbe "grep" for wintel that Ellen once mentioned in her journal.


It's in the "Files" section on her website. Smile

BethR wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 00:49

When I do, I'll look up the reference that Valerie made about her mom when describing her to Mrs. Parker.


Tuck 77:

"My mom had something similar happen, I guess," I started. "She met Dad up at MIT, she was this real political activist at the time, really looking forward to changing the world or something. I think she was torn between reforming the system and swimming in it, you know? Like they talk about ex-hippies going mainstream twenty or thirty years later?" She nodded at me. "I guess unlike you, though, she was in grad school, I think." I wasn't too sure; Mom hadn't talked about it enough that I could remember it that well. I'd had suspicions she was in the Weathermen or the SDS, but I later gave those up because Mom was too mundane. "She'd already gotten her BA's in economics and poli-sci, with a minor in sociology. Maybe she was working on the BA in sociology..."


BethR wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 00:49

That description included Valerie saying that she believed her mom had perhaps been in the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) or even the Weathermen (a.k.a. the Weather Underground). Either way, having that in her background would tend to make her wary of the police and distrust them... which I'm certain would cause the cops none too pleased to see her, either.

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2443] Sat, 25 September 2004 06:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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BethR wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 02:07

Brooke wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 03:58

On XP, use the "search" command.


Zathras says ... "Not the one!"

Yes, those are rudimentary text searching tools, but they're pale shadows of the true grep command that Ellen recommended. I had installed that one on my previous computer, but haven't found it again due to entirely too many hits for the wrong thing when using search engines.

You know... real grep... as in having the standard set of switches and the use of standard regexp template format, etc.

But for the basics, "search" does OK.


Actually, for *some* things, find works better than any grep I've found for DOS/Windoze. Search isn't as good. They tried to make it too "idiot proof" and it insists on calling home to MS every time I try to use it on local files.

But having a list of files I can click on and then edit or move has been *very* handy when going thru almost ten years of archived mailing list posts to find the old posts of mine I want to eventually turn into articles on one of my websites.

And I already tol;d you where to find Ellen's grep. Smile
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2444] Sat, 25 September 2004 12:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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BethR wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 08:49


One of these days I'm going to relocae tbe "grep" for wintel that Ellen once mentioned in her journal. When I do,


Look in the Files section of my site; accessible from the Main page. Not hard.


Ellen
nosig

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2446] Sat, 25 September 2004 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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About the "grep" thing:

Not in the same category, I know, but for searching through a long text file (or even a group of text files) you might try a freeware app called "Notetab Lite." ( http://www.notetab.com ) -- it has a regexp-capable search & replace feature.

The commercial version (Notetab Pro) adds a lot of stuff, like search & replace on disk, syntax highlighting, multi-level undo/redo and very large file support to its features, and it's way faster.

But the "Lite" version is perfectly usable in its own right, and in fact I used it for years as a replacement for that near-useless "Notepad" thing that comes with Windoze, and as my primary raw-HTML editor too.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2454] Sat, 25 September 2004 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M  is currently offline M
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Well&#8230; Tuck actually might have some options that nobody (other than his legal guardians) can hold him from. And even then, he&#8217;s sixteen, so he can petition for emancipation. But anyway, about those options&#8230;

Please be patient if I muddle a few facts just a bit&#8230; it&#8217;s been almost eight years since I had to deal with this stuff&#8230;Also, this is for Washington, and every state varies&#8230; but probably not too much.

There are actually three pieces of paper that can be considered proof of a high school education&#8230; the standard diploma a school issues, the GED, and the state certificate of high school equivalency education. Everybody knows about the first two, but almost no one knows how to use the third (unless, like me, they HAD to get out of high school as early as possible ^_-).

Basically, all schools have to set certain requirements for graduation (this is why we haven't to take four years of English, two of math, etc.), but they can make further requirements for their own diploma. For example, Washington State University requires two years of foreign language, so if you want an Aberdeen High School diploma, you have to take two years of foreign language. Once you&#8217;ve met all the requirements that your school sets, they hand you a diploma saying that you have a high school level education. Because your high school is accredited with the state board of education, you having a diploma from your high school means that the state will yes &#8220;Yes, she is a high school graduate.&#8221;

But you don&#8217;t *need* that paper, provided you meet the state requirements, which are almost always lighter than what any public high school sets. As long as you have all the specific requirements met, you can petition for a certificate from your state education office that says you have high school education. Getting a diploma from a school just automates this process.

Now, Tuck likely doesn&#8217;t meet all the requirements yet&#8230;but there&#8217;s ways of cheating that too. One of the quick ones is the GED test. Again, a lot of people don&#8217;t know this, but taking (and, of course, passing) the GED test is worth high school credits. Just because you take and pass the test doesn&#8217;t mean you have to take a GED&#8230; you can apply those credits toward your high school total. Most public schools won&#8217;t accept them&#8230; but the state education office WILL. In my state, the GED was enough to cover my senior year, a semester of my junior year, and a couple of classes I skipped to many times to get credit the first semester of my junior year.

Even if he can&#8217;t go this route, he can always apply college credits toward a high school degree. Normally, he would have to be taking classes&#8230; but there&#8217;s a way around that too.


CLEP&#8217;s and DANTE&#8217;s. Those two fun little critters are proctored tests you can take at just about any college (its costs $60 for a CLEP and $75 for a DANTE), and &#8216;test out&#8217; for classes. It took me forty-five minutes to take the CLEP for freshman English with composition, and about an hour for Essay writing&#8230; and that settled the English requirement for my AA. I know that Tuck suffers when it comes to English&#8230; but the tests are pretty easy. And the public library in the hole in the wall town where I grew up had prep books for them.

So Tuck has *plenty* of room to maneuver when he wakes up.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2457] Sun, 26 September 2004 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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M wrote on Sat, 25 September 2004 18:03

For example, Washington State University requires two years of foreign language, so if you want an Aberdeen High School diploma, you have to take two years of foreign language.


Aberdeen? Gee, a friend of mine moved up there and I'm visitiung occasionally. Small world. Smile
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2459] Sun, 26 September 2004 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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In addition to the CLEP and DANTE (never heard of that one before) tests, there are also Advanced Placement, or AP tests. These give college credit, depending on your score on the test. Scores range from 1-Lowest to 5-Highest; most colleges allow a 4 or 5 to count as an A in a class, though they vary - some tests are worth more than one class, like AP Calculus [parts]B[and]C which might be counted as A's in Calc I and II.
Tests are taken during a nationwide two-week period, and each test costs around $50. You do NOT have to have taken AP courses to take an AP test; it's just a Good Idea.
I took these in high school, and shocked everyone (including me) when I got a 5 (max) on the American History test; that later counted for half of my degree's history requirements, and $50 was MUCH cheaper than another class...
In the Bad News category, the AP Computer test was in Pascal... *gag*


Ellen
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Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2460] Sun, 26 September 2004 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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I suppose the choice of Pascal was originally a compromise between people who insisted it had to be Fortran for practical reasons and those who said C was the only logical choice. Smile Since anyone who can program in almost anything can at least read Pascal code given a thimbleful of instruction, it probably wasn't a bad choice.

In fact, that's exactly what Pascal was designed for, the academic programming language for teaching structured programming! Very Happy

I've worked on humongous programs written in mixtures of Pascal, C and Assembly and somebody else's Pascal code is a lot easier to read than somebody else's C or Assembly--since "somebody else" is usually a moron who never comments their code and has never heard of structure. Evil or Very Mad

Pascal is sort of the LCD of programming languages. And what are Java, Perl and Python but the bastard children of Pascal? Laughing

Still, it would be more useful now to test people in something that is actually used in a modern programming environment.

- Erin
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2461] Sun, 26 September 2004 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

In the Bad News category, the AP Computer test was in Pascal... *gag*


at least it didn't have any COBOL in it.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2462] Sun, 26 September 2004 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 06:50

In the Bad News category, the AP Computer test was in Pascal... *gag*



At least Pascal isn't a "write-only" language like some I could name. Perhaps you'd prefer APL? Smile

I recall the fun of a programming class I took the last time I tried going back to school. An "intro" class, as that was all I "qualified" for.

It was about 2/3rds newbies and 1/3rd folks like me. That is, folks who were working with computers, getting *paid* to program, and just wanted to get some formal instruction with an eye towards getting those pieces of paper that "certify" that you can do what you've been doing for years.

This lead to things like use of advanced concepts like records before we'd covered them. And using tools from work for the required flow charts and printouts (I found that by changing a couple of options, the source code formatter we used would produce one of the acceptable formatting options).

And using a $10k data flow diagramming program to produce the docs for your community college class is a bit of a trip.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2463] Sun, 26 September 2004 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 13:19

I recall the fun of a programming class I took the last time I tried going back to school. An "intro" class, as that was all I "qualified" for.

Gah. I remember trying to take my computer classes about four years ago. (Got my A+ roughly the same week as the dotcom collapse and wound up in an entirely different career. Yay.) One of the unavoidable prerequisites was "Intro to DOS/Windows." The DOS part of the class was actually useful to a degree, as review if nothing else. But the idiots behind the course syllabus hadn't reviewed it in years. So we had DOS first, and then Windows. This being Win 98, not 3.1, you couldn't even find the DOS prompt if you didn't know every damn thing they were supposed to cover in the second part of the course. The instructor had the decency to be embarrased by this, and cram the Windows stuff into about the last two weeks. But, just aargh. Insane. (Later classes were better, espically with the teacher who snuck the intro to Linux into the Software Troubleshooting class.)
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2464] Sun, 26 September 2004 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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OtherEric wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 13:48

Brooke wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 13:19

I recall the fun of a programming class I took the last time I tried going back to school. An "intro" class, as that was all I "qualified" for.

Gah. I remember trying to take my computer classes about four years ago. (Got my A+ roughly the same week as the dotcom collapse and wound up in an entirely different career. Yay.) One of the unavoidable prerequisites was "Intro to DOS/Windows." The DOS part of the class was actually useful to a degree, as review if nothing else. But the idiots behind the course syllabus hadn't reviewed it in years. So we had DOS first, and then Windows. This being Win 98, not 3.1, you couldn't even find the DOS prompt if you didn't know every damn thing they were supposed to cover in the second part of the course. The instructor had the decency to be embarrased by this, and cram the Windows stuff into about the last two weeks. But, just aargh. Insane. (Later classes were better, espically with the teacher who snuck the intro to Linux into the Software Troubleshooting class.)


Actually, it's a fairly minor mod to get a Win 98 box to boot to DOS and only goto Windoze if you type "Win" at the prompt.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2465] Mon, 27 September 2004 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 17:03

Actually, it's a fairly minor mod to get a Win 98 box to boot to DOS and only goto Windoze if you type "Win" at the prompt.

Sure, if the computers were used just for that class. When the lab is used even by non-CS students, much less people not in that class, that's not an option. Never mind that I wouldn't trust anybody who couldn't find the dos prompt from windows with using dos in the first place. The priority has changed on most modern machines; a lot of people even have linux go directly to a GUI on boot. (And if it did go to the prompt automatically, there would be too many smartasses like me or Tuck telling people "Type Format C:, that will set up the hard drive to do what you want.")
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2466] Mon, 27 September 2004 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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OtherEric wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 22:40

Brooke wrote on Sun, 26 September 2004 17:03

Actually, it's a fairly minor mod to get a Win 98 box to boot to DOS and only goto Windoze if you type "Win" at the prompt.

Sure, if the computers were used just for that class. When the lab is used even by non-CS students, much less people not in that class, that's not an option. Never mind that I wouldn't trust anybody who couldn't find the dos prompt from windows with using dos in the first place. The priority has changed on most modern machines; a lot of people even have linux go directly to a GUI on boot. (And if it did go to the prompt automatically, there would be too many smartasses like me or Tuck telling people "Type Format C:, that will set up the hard drive to do what you want.")


Where I used to work, we got tired of the folks who typed "Format" instead of "Format A:" so we added a "format floppy" to the choices on the batch file based "menu" on the machines (this was back in the DOS days).

And just in case, we added a FORMAT.BAT and renamed FORMAT.COM.

After that wse went from having to restore a computer several times a month to never having an accidentally formatted HD.

Between that and writing BASIC programs for RPGers back in the early 80s, I'm a *firm* believer in not only making things idiot proff, but in input checking and trapping for out of range values (had a player who would look atr a screen offering 5 choices and enter something else just to see what would happen.)


Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2467] Mon, 27 September 2004 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Back before windows, at unprotected machines in stores etc., I use to have a little basic program I would type in. This would inform anyone who typed at the dos prompt that they had an {input error} no matter what they typed.

I was kind tho, all one had to do was hit ctrl-c or reboot to get rid of the program. I could have set things up so that the program intercepted ctrl-c and ignored it or said {input error} to it too.

Then save the program and add calling it to the startup routine. Surprised You could still get out of it by rebooting and hitting ctrl-c several times to keep the program from loading but that would likely have been beyond the skills of any computer sales people in those days. Very Happy

- Erin
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2468] Mon, 27 September 2004 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 10:59

Back before windows, at unprotected machines in stores etc., I use to have a little basic program I would type in. This would inform anyone who typed at the dos prompt that they had an {input error} no matter what they typed.

I was kind tho, all one had to do was hit ctrl-c or reboot to get rid of the program. I could have set things up so that the program intercepted ctrl-c and ignored it or said {input error} to it too.

Then save the program and add calling it to the startup routine. Surprised You could still get out of it by rebooting and hitting ctrl-c several times to keep the program from loading but that would likely have been beyond the skills of any computer sales people in those days. Very Happy

- Erin


The absolute *simplest* way to mess with someone's mind back in those days:

At the command prompt, type:

prompt Bad Command or Filename$_$p$g

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2575] Fri, 15 October 2004 04:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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OtherEric wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 23:46

So, what new medical revelation is hiding the reference to a chart?


Not sure why this came to mind last night, but it occurs to me that we're still waiting for a medical explanation on this:

*** 05:44 30 Sep


Oh my god, I moaned. That was a BIG lump in my armpit. I peered around, and it was even worse than Id thought.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2577] Fri, 15 October 2004 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Fri, 15 October 2004 01:33

OtherEric wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 23:46

So, what new medical revelation is hiding the reference to a chart?


Not sure why this came to mind last night, but it occurs to me that we're still waiting for a medical explanation on this:

*** 05:44 30 Sep


&#65533;Oh my god,&#65533; I moaned. That was a BIG lump in my armpit. I peered around, and it was even worse than I&#65533;d thought.



Just the zit from hell. I had one of those on my neck once, just above the hairline.

Someone already said something similar on here somewhere.

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2578] Sat, 16 October 2004 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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The lump in the armpit turned out to be a cyst, an infected sweat duct or hair follicle, I think. Some people get them easily.

- Erin
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2923] Wed, 15 December 2004 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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For some reason, I keep coming back to this:

end of Chapter 105

Ricky! someone yelled, and when he looked it wasnt Valerie, it was one of the other ones, the fat one, waving at him.

I'll admit I've never had as clear an physical image of Kim as the story provided; for some reason I had trouble matching the description to her personality as shown in our earlier encounters with her.

But I always thought that Kim's insistence that she was seriously overweight represented a poor self-image rather than actuality. (Especially since all of the Pack except Pam and Kathy didn't seem to have a lot of problem fitting into each other's clothes.) So this reference, from Ricky Parker's POV, surprised me. Anyone else feel the same?

(This isn't meant as an objection or criticism; I'm just curious whether anyone else was similarly affected.)

Eric

[Updated on: Wed, 15 December 2004 08:40]

Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2925] Wed, 15 December 2004 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Eric wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 05:35

(This isn't meant as an objection or criticism; I'm just curious whether anyone else was similarly affected.)

I had almost the exact same reaction. I finally decided that Kim probably was just slightly on the heavy side and Ricky was being a royal twit that day.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #2927] Wed, 15 December 2004 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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OtherEric wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 08:52

Eric wrote on Wed, 15 December 2004 05:35

(This isn't meant as an objection or criticism; I'm just curious whether anyone else was similarly affected.)

I had almost the exact same reaction. I finally decided that Kim probably was just slightly on the heavy side and Ricky was being a royal twit that day.


Could be he's just young enougfh to think that the anorexic "model" types set forth on TV and in the movies are the way girl's Kim's age are "supposed" to look.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3562] Tue, 17 May 2005 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mthead  is currently offline mthead
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There has been a lot (well some) discussion back when this chapter was written about "So, what new medical revelation is hiding the reference to a chart?"
As a new reader, I confess this has been puzzling me also. I know it is an old thread but since it is still unanswered let me make a stab at it.

Medical charts are not accessable to just anyone so it must be a staff member or a volunteer that looked in the chart. Also, it seems as if it was someone not familiar with Tuck's history. This might be fanciful on my part but is my impression. That makes me think that it is someone that has seen the patient, reckognized the patient, reviewed the chart, and made a significant discovery.

Enough preamble, I think that "Miz Upshaw" (Gary & David's mom) heard Val was in the hospital and decided to look in on her. Since I recently read the whole story in two days I remembered that Mrs. Upshaw responded to a question from Val:

I turned to Miz Upshaw and asked, "Um, do I need to call you
too?"
She shook her head. "I'll probably be sleeping. I work nights at
the hospital, so... Just call Beth, and if I need to know where they
are I'll call her."
Shocked
This would certainly let the cat out of the bag.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3563] Tue, 17 May 2005 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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mthead wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 18:09

I turned to Miz Upshaw and asked, "Um, do I need to call you
too?"
She shook her head. "I'll probably be sleeping. I work nights at
the hospital, so... Just call Beth, and if I need to know where they
are I'll call her."
Shocked
This would certainly let the cat out of the bag.


That's an excellent thought. Hmm. Smile


Rachel
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3564] Tue, 17 May 2005 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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That DOES work, since all she says is "This can't be right." I wonder if she knows/remembers that Valerie's last name is Tucker.

Her looking through the records would provide the medical explanation for Tuck's babysitting as Valerie that (as we've noted before) seemed like the only way out if the Parkers discovered the situation. And it WON'T say that Tuck's been going to school as a male this year, though now that Travis has that detail it probably won't be a secret much longer.

Great catch.

Eric
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3565] Wed, 18 May 2005 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 14:46

That DOES work, since all she says is "This can't be right." I wonder if she knows/remembers that Valerie's last name is Tucker.

Her looking through the records would provide the medical explanation for Tuck's babysitting as Valerie that (as we've noted before) seemed like the only way out if the Parkers discovered the situation.


That may provide an out with the Parkers. One has been needed...

Eric wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 14:46

And it WON'T say that Tuck's been going to school as a male this year, though now that Travis has that detail it probably won't be a secret much longer.


Actually, Travis *doesn't* know Tuck has been going to school as a guy.
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3567] Wed, 18 May 2005 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 22:16

Actually, Travis *doesn't* know Tuck has been going to school as a guy.


If he's thought it through, he does.

21:01 6 Oct

I actually had email again. This one was from Mike. hed written an hour ago. <Hes pissed. Give him some time to think about things. WHY didnt you TELL him about your other (original) life? ...Thats what hes most pissed about. He told me hell call you in a few days. Suggest you dont call him first.


Travis already knew before Mike's visit that Valerie "used to be a guy", so that's not his problem. What he's upset about, apparently, is Val not telling him that she still has a life as Tuck.

And I can't see that coming up at this particular point to anger Travis unless Mike explained the reason Val was grounded and couldn't communicate with him. And if Mike told Travis that the Tucker parents didn't know Tuck was babysitting as Val, it's going to be hard for him to imagine that he was attending school as Val without their knowing.

Lisa and Debbie don't think Travis knows. But they don't know about Mike's visit.

Eric
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3568] Wed, 18 May 2005 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Wed, 18 May 2005 04:36

Brooke wrote on Tue, 17 May 2005 22:16

Actually, Travis *doesn't* know Tuck has been going to school as a guy.


If he's thought it through, he does.

21:01 6 Oct

I actually had email again. This one was from Mike. he&#65533;d written an hour ago. <He&#65533;s pissed. Give him some time to think about things. WHY didn&#65533;t you TELL him about your other (original) life? ...That&#65533;s what he&#65533;s most pissed about. He told me he&#65533;ll call you in a few days. Suggest you don&#65533;t call him first.


Travis already knew before Mike's visit that Valerie "used to be a guy", so that's not his problem. What he's upset about, apparently, is Val not telling him that she still has a life as Tuck.

And I can't see that coming up at this particular point to anger Travis unless Mike explained the reason Val was grounded and couldn't communicate with him. And if Mike told Travis that the Tucker parents didn't know Tuck was babysitting as Val, it's going to be hard for him to imagine that he was attending school as Val without their knowing.

Lisa and Debbie don't think Travis knows. But they don't know about Mike's visit.


(Loud wailing and gnashing of teeth).

Arrgh. Well, time to rewrite a large chunk of "Meet the Tuckers".
<sigh>
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3586] Tue, 24 May 2005 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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I don't think you should necessarily rewrite, Brooke.

Evidence seems to indicate that Travis is capable of being willfully ignorant about Valerie's condition. Although he knows, in the early summer (by virtue of having gotten Lisa drunk at a party), later in the summer he's asking Valerie whether she's ever thought about having children.

Still later--in #109, in fact--Lisa suggests, in discussion with Debbie, that Travis acts and speaks as though he's not aware that tuck isn't "one thing or the other."

In general, Ellen seems to do a lovely job with the gender confusion thing: there's a place (in 103?) where Debbie is thinking about Tucker/Valerie and switches pronouns in mid-thought, without self-consciousness. I'm betting that Travis is the same way: though he "knows" on some level that Valerie has a more complex background than other girls, he doesn't really think about that. No connecting the dots. He's maybe gotten his nose rubbed in it when Tuck's grounded, but given the way he's acting by 109, I'd bet that he's more or less forgotten, yet again, that her biology is complex.

And he doesn't know the details, or at least not the way that the Pack does. The Pack hasn't even filled Debbie in on those details.

There's a chance, though (or I think so) that their relationship is in the post-romantic-haze phase (happens for most relationships after three to six months), entering the phase of habitual behavior (that usually lasts until about one year to eighteen months, and the commitment crisis: do we want to be together long-term? Tuck and Debbie just missed going into that phase, I'd guess, because of the disaster in LA).
Re: Chapter 105 is here [message #3587] Wed, 25 May 2005 00:38 Go to previous message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Amy! wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46

I don't think you should necessarily rewrite, Brooke.


Good. Because upon looking at it, it'd get really messy.

Amy! wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46

Evidence seems to indicate that Travis is capable of being willfully ignorant about Valerie's condition. Although he knows, in the early summer (by virtue of having gotten Lisa drunk at a party), later in the summer he's asking Valerie whether she's ever thought about having children.


Well, I'm all too familiar with a third situation. Having the facts but not thinking to put them together in your head.

And for that matter, assuming that Travis took Lisa's "She used to be a boy" comment as Val being a TS, I get the impression that a lot of folks don't realize just how limited SRS is. So there are a couple of possible explanations for Travis thinking Val can have kids.

Amy! wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46

Still later--in #109, in fact--Lisa suggests, in discussion with Debbie, that Travis acts and speaks as though he's not aware that tuck isn't "one thing or the other."


Yeah, that's what I was using as a starting point. I also checked the incidents where Val and Travis discussed things. But I missed the bit about Mike talking to Travis. Though we have that info at third hand.

Amy! wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46

In general, Ellen seems to do a lovely job with the gender confusion thing: there's a place (in 103?) where Debbie is thinking about Tucker/Valerie and switches pronouns in mid-thought, without self-consciousness.


Heck, I seem to recall Val doing that several times. Which brings up an interesting point. Tuck seems rather certain that he's a guy. But Val keeps slipping.

Amy! wrote on Tue, 24 May 2005 19:46

I'm betting that Travis is the same way: though he "knows" on some level that Valerie has a more complex background than other girls, he doesn't really think about that. No connecting the dots. He's maybe gotten his nose rubbed in it when Tuck's grounded, but given the way he's acting by 109, I'd bet that he's more or less forgotten, yet again, that her biology is complex.

And he doesn't know the details, or at least not the way that the Pack does. The Pack hasn't even filled Debbie in on those details.


At some point, soon Debbie needs to get the "lecture". And Travis needs it too, though I don't see Ellen doing that anytime soon.

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