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Gifted & Talented [message #2280] Sat, 18 September 2004 22:14 Go to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Anybody else wondering when someone (probably Debbie) will suggest that *all* the G&T students pull out of the school stating that they feel it is unsafe and that they are no longer willing to put up with wehat amounts to an *institutionalized* system of abuse of those who are "different"?

*That* will get the attention of the school board. And I rather suspect that Dobson will enjoy twisting the knife too.

This will also have the advantage of hurting those who weren't actively involved in *this* attack on Tuck, but who have contributed to the climate of fear.

Does anyone know exactly what happens to schools that don't get high enough scores on those tests? We had a local school get hit with that last year, but I don't recall details (other than the fact that part of the problem is tha "special ed" students get their scores counted too and count against the "no more than X percent can score lower than..."
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2288] Sun, 19 September 2004 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michelle  is currently offline Michelle
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I bet there are many members of the Pack and Da Boyz on the G & T. And a group of jocks are going down the list to take out the people on that list to bring the school grade curve back down so they don't look so dumb. There may even be someone higher in power in the school helping jocks with information, on like who to hit. Dunno, maybe far fetched, but I think it kinda works.

Michelle
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2293] Sun, 19 September 2004 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 03:14

Anybody else wondering when someone (probably Debbie) will suggest that *all* the G&T students pull out of the school stating that they feel it is unsafe and that they are no longer willing to put up with wehat amounts to an *institutionalized* system of abuse of those who are "different"?

*That* will get the attention of the school board. And I rather suspect that Dobson will enjoy twisting the knife too.


It occurred to me, but no idea the feasibility of students doing that... Sounds like the sort of thing you'd do if you wanted to make it a media cause celebre actually.

... Which I wouldn't put outside Debbie's thinking.


Rachel
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2295] Sun, 19 September 2004 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sherizad  is currently offline Sherizad
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Well... G'n'T' studients are not that many, so... yeah, Debbie could be thinking about making them all just "dump" the school. But I think she's going to bluff about it, and, she being not excatly most rational woman on earth, gonna do it too soon, and on Dobson.

About the bluff itself: Well, IMO is a good way to make them look at your problem. It's not like a couple jocks telling them "I'm outta here". Hell... even in my old Europe, I tried once that bluff, and we have really a lot of G'n'T' ppl around here... (kinda 80 % of hich school population, in mine), and it WORKED. So, I think it could work, if not spoiled by using it too soon.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2297] Sun, 19 September 2004 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sherizad wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 11:50

Well... G'n'T' studients are not that many, so... yeah, Debbie could be thinking about making them all just "dump" the school. But I think she's going to bluff about it, and, she being not excatly most rational woman on earth, gonna do it too soon, and on Dobson.

About the bluff itself: Well, IMO is a good way to make them look at your problem. It's not like a couple jocks telling them "I'm outta here". Hell... even in my old Europe, I tried once that bluff, and we have really a lot of G'n'T' ppl around here... (kinda 80 % of hich school population, in mine), and it WORKED. So, I think it could work, if not spoiled by using it too soon.


If done right, it could be ammunition for Dobson, in attempting to turn the school around after Nickerson's mismanagement.


Rachel
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2305] Sun, 19 September 2004 13:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Michelle wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 01:24

I bet there are many members of the Pack and Da Boyz on the G & T. And a group of jocks are going down the list to take out the people on that list to bring the school grade curve back down so they don't look so dumb. There may even be someone higher in power in the school helping jocks with information, on like who to hit. Dunno, maybe far fetched, but I think it kinda works.

Michelle


Only problem is that doing that would be *incredibly* dumb. Those tests mentioned are things that the *school* has to meet standards in or undergo *messy* changes in priorities to bring the tests back to acceptable levels.

Things like "no extracurricular activities" would happen. Which hurts the jocks *bad*. No sports.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2311] Sun, 19 September 2004 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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i'm REALLY not sure what deb's thinking, but i'm fairly sure it will be more than a G&T student walkout on test day or something. while that might kill the school's sports programs, i'd bet it would first kill the scool's art and music programs. though it WOULD get the media's atention.


i'm actualy pondering something compleatly differant though.

remember WAY back when dobson checked on tuck's little brother/sister assignment, it looked like somone had sloppily hacked into the system and changed it?

then again just a few weeks ago, the school computers went down right before the grades had to be sent out.

that second one really puzzeled me. Why would somone know that and want to mess it up? just to keep the school grades from going out? the "becouse it was there" rational? i figure that might have been a divertion, but it's hard to tell.

regardless, there's somone else in the school besides da boyz who know computers and stuff enough to pull somethign like that off. but not enough to pull it off effectivly (unless it was a divertion). why would you plant a program that would take everything down that friday, and not plant one that would take everything down just hours before they had to send it?

i don't think they were planning to get tuck there in order to spray paint his car... that would be too clever.

but here we are with the G&T students being targeted... and a hacker trying to stop grades from being sent out on time. it's a subtle link, but as deb said, there's somehting there... it just hasn't congealed yet.

of course a walk out is still entirly possible and wouldn't be out of character.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2315] Sun, 19 September 2004 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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I'm not envisioning a "walkout". I'm envisioning a "either the assualts and harassments end or we transfer to another school or we are gone. Permanently. And *we* have top believe the measures will work. Failurure to carry thru will result in us leaving"

They could trransfer to other schools (even with an "out of area" fee it'd be doable) go for early college enrollment (remember, they are G&T, they could probably pass a GED exam half asleep), or go for homeschooling or the like.

Lots of options. and all *permanent*.

A walkout isn't sufficiently threatening, and hurts the students doing it.

And the assault on Tuck makes the threat to leave *reasonable*. Much harder to argue "they're bluffing".

Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2356] Tue, 21 September 2004 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Something to consider...
martenkemp wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 10:55

Giggle factor: On Sadie Hawkins Day everybody cross dresses for school and a dance afterward.

With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)


Ellen
nosig
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2358] Tue, 21 September 2004 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 08:16


With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)

It depends on how Tuck is dressing for a typical day of school at that point, really. If it's as Val, Eugene shows back up for a day. If Tuck's in the mood to mess with people, Tuck works up one of those half man/ half woman bilateral costumes and goes like that.
If it's still Eugene at school, it depends a lot on how complete the participation looks like it's going to be; and how friendly the mass of students is at that point. Tuck may be kept home from school that day because either dressing up or not dressing up might be dangerous. (If he doesn't dress up, he gets funny looks. Or the people who don't really know Tuck might think she was participating. And if she does, there is way too much chance people might make a connection to the girl they've seen around town somewhere.)
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2360] Tue, 21 September 2004 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 16:16

Something to consider...
martenkemp wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 10:55

Giggle factor: On Sadie Hawkins Day everybody cross dresses for school and a dance afterward.

With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)


Ellen
nosig



'ang on, googling sadie hawkins...


Rachel
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2363] Tue, 21 September 2004 17:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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Not sure if you're being facetious regarding Sadie Hawkins, however, it came from an old comic strip about a poor mountain rural community that ended in the '70's titled Li'L Abner. I believe Sadie Hawkin's day started out as February 29 (i.e. one day every leap year) in this strip, where all the unwed men in this comic community were lined up at an appointed shot gun start time to run away from any unwed girls. If the girl caught him, he was to marry her. A girl in this universe was considered an old maid if not married by age 14. It became a custom in many American schools to hold a "Sadie Hawkin's" dance where girls could ask boys of their choosing to dance......
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2364] Tue, 21 September 2004 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
L  is currently offline L
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 15:16

Something to consider...
martenkemp wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 10:55

Giggle factor: On Sadie Hawkins Day everybody cross dresses for school and a dance afterward.

With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)


Since everybody would aready be wearing a costume of sorts on that day, Tuck could dress up like Mulan or some other more-or-less mainstream female character trying to pass off as male - I don't remember the year when Disney's "Mulan" was released, so I don't know if it's covered by current Tuck time... I couldn't remember any other character of the sort right now... - his more informed friends would most certainly find it funny, and it'd probably just confuse everyone else in a relatively safe manner.

This should probably be a separate topic on its own...
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2365] Tue, 21 September 2004 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)


i would figure tuck would dress as val, yet wearing as masculin as possible of an outfit. maybe like the date with julia.

on that line, julia or whoever whoever tuck takes, should dress in a full formal highland dress kilt thingy. yes, it's weird. but julie would go for it.

it's also MUCH too predicatable and thus would never happen.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2366] Tue, 21 September 2004 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Visualize sort a Tucky Season's crossover and see if Tuck/Val goes as Boudicca - Queen of the Celts? Laughing
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2376] Tue, 21 September 2004 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Doragoon wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 13:11

i'm REALLY not sure what deb's thinking, but i'm fairly sure it will be more than a G&T student walkout on test day or something. while that might kill the school's sports programs, i'd bet it would first kill the scool's art and music programs. though it WOULD get the media's atention.


Actually, from what little I know about such things, it'd kill *both* sports and "arts". And probably kill sports first. Because schools on that sort of "probation" aren't *allowed* to compete with other schools.

Arts & music, on the other hand are mostly *internal* activities.

But yeah, they'd likely go as well. Because the schools that get hit with that sort of thing tend to be *forced* into "spend all the time drilling on the stuff the tests cover".

Doragoon wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 13:11

that second one really puzzeled me. Why would somone know that and want to mess it up? just to keep the school grades from going out? the "becouse it was there" rational? i figure that might have been a divertion, but it's hard to tell.


Who says that was the intent? Could have been just bad timing.

Doragoon wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 13:11

but here we are with the G&T students being targeted... and a hacker trying to stop grades from being sent out on time. it's a subtle link, but as deb said, there's somehting there... it just hasn't congealed yet.


Never attribute to enemey action that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2377] Tue, 21 September 2004 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 08:16

Something to consider...
martenkemp wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 10:55

Giggle factor: On Sadie Hawkins Day everybody cross dresses for school and a dance afterward.

With all the talk about Tucker coming to school as Valerie after the attack, HOW would he be expected to dress for THIS day of school?
Class discussion, points for participation. =)


If Tu-Val's sense of humor is up to it, an outfit I've seen once. A "half-man/half-woman" thing. One side is a tux or other "suit", the other half is a sexy dress. Smile

Hmmm. Picturing Tu-Val in that showing up at the dance with Debbie on the "male" arm and Travis on the "female" one. Smile

Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2378] Tue, 21 September 2004 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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rachel.greenham wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 10:13


'ang on, googling sadie hawkins...



It's from the late Al Capp's "L'il Abner" comic strip. (which was still in newspapers when I was a kid)

In the strip, which was set in the hillbilly community of Dogpatch, on Sadie Hawkins day, there was a race. All the bachelors ran and after a short delay, all the umarried women chased them. If they caught you, you were treated to a shotgun wedding.

It was institued originally as a way to get a husband for one Sadie Hawkins by her father way back when He was mayor or sheriff or something. (hey, it's been 40 years since the strip ran!)

Anyway, The idea sort of passed into American culture. Lots of schools have the dances or whatever with the concept having transmuted into "Girls ask the boys".

The crossdressing seems to be a much more recent addition.


Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2379] Tue, 21 September 2004 19:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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lurker wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 15:18

Visualize sort a Tucky Season's crossover and see if Tuck/Val goes as Boudicca - Queen of the Celts? Laughing


Somehow, I think the school admin would objection to a *proper* costiume for Boudicca(sp). Bare breasts don't go over well in high school.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2380] Tue, 21 September 2004 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Brooke wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 00:32

lurker wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 15:18

Visualize sort a Tucky Season's crossover and see if Tuck/Val goes as Boudicca - Queen of the Celts? Laughing


Somehow, I think the school admin would objection to a *proper* costiume for Boudicca(sp). Bare breasts don't go over well in high school.



... or you're back onto NiS territory I guess. Twisted Evil


Rachel
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2381] Tue, 21 September 2004 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 16:32


Somehow, I think the school admin would objection to a *proper* costiume for Boudicca(sp). Bare breasts don't go over well in high school.



If the school thought he was male, and legally he still is, it's not exactly a "girls gone wild" exhibition by Tuck..... It would be (or should be) considered no different than if he just wore swimming trunks to the pool.

Interesting....NIS for a school dance Shocked Oops - wrong universe! Embarassed
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2384] Tue, 21 September 2004 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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About "Li'l Abner" & Sadie Hawkins:

1- Li'l Abner lasted into the seventies (although many consider these later strips quite below-standard). So, it ran to about 30 years ago, not 40.

2- If anybody is interested, comics.com presents rerun strips daily on their website. The URL is:
http://www.comics.com/comics/lilabner/index.html

The earlier strips (from the thirties to the sixties) were amazingly good. The late-and-lamented Kitchen Sink Comics began a projet to reprint the whole thing in album form (one year per album, printed quite BIG for a comic strip -- the books are about A3 size, landscape, and they print only two strips per page). They managed to print more than 20 volumes before the company went under. You can probably find them in used-book stores and places that deal in old comics (and, of course, eBay). Probably expensive, though. My father managed to buy almost all of them...


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Sadie Hawkins [message #2385] Tue, 21 September 2004 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Al Capp never set a standard date for Sadie Hawkins Day, he just returned to it as a maguffin for various storylines from time to time. The two dates I've most often seen for observances of it are Feb 29 and Nov 17, though I've also seen Jan 2 and various other dates in October, November and February. Ghu knows why. Laughing

The tradition of women proposing to men in leap years is actually a different source and probably older than the Li'l Abner strip.

Oh, the best Li'l Abner strips were probably those written by Al Capp and drawn by Frank Frazetta (uncredited) in the early fifties. Gorgeous art and some of the most tangled storylines ever.

Al himself started as the uncredited assistant on the Joe Palooka strip back in the thirties, I believe.

- Erin
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2386] Tue, 21 September 2004 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Sir Lee wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 19:27

About "Li'l Abner" & Sadie Hawkins:

1- Li'l Abner lasted into the seventies (although many consider these later strips quite below-standard). So, it ran to about 30 years ago, not 40.


The local paper where I grew up quit carrying the strip about 40 years ago.

Which was why I said "40 years". I haven't seen any of the strips in that long.
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2387] Tue, 21 September 2004 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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lurker wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 17:43

Brooke wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 16:32


Somehow, I think the school admin would objection to a *proper* costiume for Boudicca(sp). Bare breasts don't go over well in high school.



If the school thought he was male, and legally he still is, it's not exactly a "girls gone wild" exhibition by Tuck..... It would be (or should be) considered no different than if he just wore swimming trunks to the pool.

Interesting....NIS for a school dance Shocked Oops - wrong universe! Embarassed


Actually, depending on the state he's in, Tuck my *not* actuallu be legally male right now.

There's at least one court decision (in Texas) that would make him both (or neither) as the judge was stupid enough to rule that it was genetic sex that determines (someone was challenging the marriage of a M2F so as to keep her from inheriting her late husband's property)

Intersexuals are one of the reasons that the anti "gay marriage" laws are *not* going to stand up long term. Under those, ISes can't marry anybody. Which goes against the reasoning in the Supreme Court decision that made laws against interracial marriages go away.

Same goes for post-op TSes in some states (Washington state for one according to my sources). But they aren't the best test case as it can be argued that they "chose" to make themselves "ineligible" for marriage. I don't agree, but it can be *argued*...


Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2392] Wed, 22 September 2004 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 20:25


Same goes for post-op TSes in some states (Washington state for one according to my sources). But they aren't the best test case as it can be argued that they "chose" to make themselves "ineligible" for marriage. I don't agree, but it can be *argued*...

Actually, it seems like judges up here are exhibiting an unusual degree of sanity when same-sex marriage cases are coming up. While the enactment of the rulings are being held pending Washington State Supreme Court review of them, the two cases that have been heard both were in favor of allowing them and declaring the ban against them against the state constitution.

On Li'l Abner: My favorites are the Fearless Fosdick strips, rather than the ones ghosted by Frazetta. From what I've seen, the Frazetta strips don't stand out from the general Capp run as much as some people claim they do. YMMV. Fun stuff all around, though. (My favorite Frazetta work is the comics he did with Al Williamson. And that's enough comic geeking for this board for now.)
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2394] Wed, 22 September 2004 02:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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OtherEric wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 21:43

Brooke wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 20:25


Same goes for post-op TSes in some states (Washington state for one according to my sources). But they aren't the best test case as it can be argued that they "chose" to make themselves "ineligible" for marriage. I don't agree, but it can be *argued*...

Actually, it seems like judges up here are exhibiting an unusual degree of sanity when same-sex marriage cases are coming up. While the enactment of the rulings are being held pending Washington State Supreme Court review of them, the two cases that have been heard both were in favor of allowing them and declaring the ban against them against the state constitution.


Well, if they approve same sex marriages in WA, then TSes will be ok. But apparently the most recent actual precedent wouldn't let an M2F marry *either* a man or a woman. Sad

Here in Oregon, we've got our own problems to worry about with Measure 36 trying to amend the state constitution to define marriage as between "one man and one woman".
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2395] Wed, 22 September 2004 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Perhaps that's because Lee Elias and Stan Drake were the pencil assistants on either side of Frazetta. Smile And the same inker did all of them.

Why did Capp need assistants when he was a crackerjack artist (and a ripping-good caricaturist) himself? He was a busy guy, he had a radio show, a couple of newspaper columns and personal appearances to do as well as the comic strip. His success as a writer pushed him out of doing his own art.

Maybe that's what Ellen needs, a couple of assistants. Smile Trouble is, there's not really a way to break down what she's doing in Tuck into farmable tasks. She's got some proofreaders and that's about it. What else could anyone do and it still be original Tuck? Fanfics are great but the center ring belongs to Ellen.

- Erin
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2402] Wed, 22 September 2004 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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martenkemp wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 02:55

Are there "magnet schools" or "charter schools" or suchlike in the Tuckerverse? I can see the G&T students pulling out due to an unsafe and abusive environment as the first step in trying to establish a separate school for all the G&T students in the McDistrict. Someplace where Da Boyz and The Pack would be safe.


Good question. Seems to me that circa 1997, school vouchers were the proposed way out of the system rather than charter schools.

But anyway, it's just the Pack members, I think, who feel that the school would take major measures not to lose Tuck because he's G&T. Do the math; the truth is that the departure of one disruptive student would gain the school more than the small percentage of a single point that even a perfect test score would cost. Even the loss of ten top scorers (call them 9's on a scale of 10, with the school average at, say, 4) in a school of 1000, only drops you from 4000/1000 to 3910/990, which is 3.95. (Losing one perfect 10 and keeping everyone else puts you at 3990/999, which of course is 3.99399.)

And it'd be tough for Debbie (or whoever) to get a group action going, since (a) not all the Pack and Da Boyz are in the G&T category, and not all the G&T kids are in or aligned with them, and (b) those two groups aren't exactly popular at McAllen, and a lot of kids, gifted or otherwise, would rather curry the favor of the ingroup than stand with the outcasts. (And, given the rumors going around and the likelihood that the miscreants will use the "stopping a dangerous pervert" excuse for their actions once they're apprehended, there'll be people among the G&T group who'll be convinced that Tuck got what he deserved.)

I suppose the necessities of the plot could trump those figures, but I'm inclined to think that Debbie has something else in mind.

Besides, the original plan suggested by Tuck, Mike et al. before all this happened was to coordinate things with the teachers so that Tuck could take his courses while staying at home. That would keep his test score part of McAllen's aggregate, it no longer sets a bad precedent since Tuck is now clearly in a separate category from any others who'd want to do it for convenience, and of course Dobson's not going to object, though he's likely to be forced to step down during the investigation and we don't know where the dean (the #2 man) stands on the subject of Tuck.

Eric
Re: Gifted & Talented [message #2407] Wed, 22 September 2004 22:49 Go to previous message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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I KNOW!!!

all the G&T students work to make it look like tuck is at school when he's really at home so he can make them breakfasts and pack them picknic lunches and all that. maybe even tuck types up "cheat sheets" for them to use to do all thier homework on. so tuck doesn't have to go to school, and the G&T students get good food.

sounds like a plan. and dobson will go along with it to keep tucker out of danger and out of his hair.


sorry. i couldn't resist being silly.
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