Home » Tuck Talk » Future Tuck » Where is Travis and Lisa?
icon5.gif  Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2808] Thu, 11 November 2004 18:21 Go to next message
lurker
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Mostly, where is Travis?? I am assuming Debbie still has her side relationship with Lisa as well as they are business partners. Lisa has some dealings with Travis. Wouldn't Travis know that something happened to Val either by contact with Mike or Lisa by now ? It's been a week and a half since Val was in contact with Travis... Confused

Or will Ellen use this to break'em up? Sad
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2809] Thu, 11 November 2004 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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I'm pretty sure nobody has notified Travis of the situation yet. I'm not sure many people in the group know how to; and the ones that do are very busy right now. The last we heard, Travis was cooling down but had promised to get in touch with Valerie in a few days. I don't think we've gotten any concrete word on who has Tuck's pager at this point- if it went with the laptop or not.

I don't think Ellen's going to use this, as such, to break them up. Travis had the opportunity to dump Val outright over this after there argument, and didn't. And given Travis's reaction to Bobby getting dumped by Sheila when Bobby was in the hospital, there is no way Travis will dump Val until she is better. I have no idea where they will go from there- but this won't be what kills the relationship.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2810] Thu, 11 November 2004 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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i hate to say it, but, they also don't know for sure that the attack on tuck didn't have something to do with travis.

Even if it doesn't, it wouldn't be good to raise more suspitions and possibly endanger another person.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2812] Fri, 12 November 2004 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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I was just wondering... In the last few chapters which have been 3rd person, we've seen the viewpoints of a lot of characters we don't usually see. But not Travis. I wonder if the omission is telling... (ie: Ellen couldn't do it without revealing more about Travis's motivations than she wants to right now.)


Rachel
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2813] Fri, 12 November 2004 06:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ClaireR  is currently offline ClaireR
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OtherEric wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 00:42

I'm pretty sure nobody has notified Travis of the situation yet.

I don't think Ellen's going to use this, as such, to break them up. Travis had the opportunity to dump Val outright over this after there argument, and didn't.


Travis has as far as we are aware only one means on contacting Val, and that is through the pager, so its very doubtful that Travis knows anything. He knows that Val isnt on best terms with Lisa so why would he ask?

As to your second point, I have to disagree Travis has not had the opportunity to finish things since he has learnt all the facts about Tucks life from Mike. Remember Travis was of the notion that Tuck lived full time as Val. Travis is pretty no confrontational and it wouldnt surprise me if he just wants the relationship to now go away without having to actually declare it over.

Personally I hope that the relationship is over as I think Travis is a bit too wimpy for Tuck. I'd much rather see Val with back with Debbie or getting together Jack.

[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2004 06:25]

Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2818] Sun, 14 November 2004 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stripes  is currently offline stripes
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It sure looks like Val and Travis are going to crash and burn to me. Travis can only cope with Eugene by pretending he doesn't exist, which just won't work for long no matter what. Now that Val has been busted, keeping them separate is going to be really hard. Travis is uncomfortable even hanging out with people who know Val "used to be" a boy.

On Val's side, things are not really much better. She doesn't seem to trust Travis very much, which is probably because of Debbie's "betrayal" (during which Debbie behaved exactly the way Debbie always does). She doesn't seem very interested in him beyond the physical attraction - how much about Travis has she felt appropriate to record in the Saga? Some vauge comments about reading, some vague comments about classical music a few conversations about the Boy Scouts (are they still the Boy Scouts in the States? Here they're now just the Scouts, since they allow girls) during which Val and Travis basically just agree to disagree. Does Travis even know about Val's synthesizer? He knows very little about her computer stuff, nothing about the gaming, apparently nothing about the guns...

So I don't think the Val/Travis relationship is destined to last. (But what do I know?) That said, Travis is certainly not going to break up with Val while she's in the hospital (if he knows... if he just thinks she's not calling back, anything could happen). If he was ready to break up with her before, after the fight followed by Mike's revelation, things are going to be really bad: he'll want out, but his honour won't let him bail, or even complain, until long after Val has recovered. So there'll be all kinds of simmering unhappiness and tension; he may do something stupid, like go on a date with someone else, to force the issue. Val, since she doesn't like ot examine herself at all, and in particular doesn't like to think about her reasons for dating Travis, is not going to be too keen on dumping Travis. The girls may help there, since Val can at least talk about it, if they're not driving her crazy about becoming Val permanently.

So, if Travis and Val do break up, who would Val wind up dating? One possibility, fraught with the necessary angst: Val is shattered (although not as much as with Debbie, since she never trusted Travis much anyway). As she recovers, she gets involved with other things (Debbie's GnT idea? Maybe they'll let her/him take college-level computer courses) but in particular makes a lot of progress on her synthesizer. One of the Pack finds out how good Val is and gets her talking to Jack again. Val gets talked into playing with Stepwise Pagoda "just this once" (as synth player, sound mixer, DJ, etc.). Val jumps at the chance to give Stepwise Pagoda a more techno sound. Of course, Val's still not public, so putting her on stage leads to all sorts of weirdness. Jack is still interested in Val; Val seems to get along with Jack - but what are the age-of-consent laws? How do Val's family and friends feel about her dating an older guy who's a musician? What's the story with Jack and Sheila? (Sheila number two, that is, not the therapist or the Red Bluff chick)

Allover
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2825] Tue, 16 November 2004 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raadsel  is currently offline Raadsel
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stripes wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 13:20

It sure looks like Val and Travis are going to crash and burn to me. Travis can only cope with Eugene by pretending he doesn't exist, which just won't work for long no matter what. Now that Val has been busted, keeping them separate is going to be really hard. Travis is uncomfortable even hanging out with people who know Val "used to be" a boy.


I don't necessarily see that. To a degree, we don't know what Travis can cope with, he's never really been with Eugene. Though there are definitely signs that he would have trouble with Eugene, he also had problems with Valerie having formerly a boy but found he cared too much for Valerie to want to be away from her. It's amazing how we can tell ourselves that we can't put up with something, then find we can when we are forced to. As for the friends, there are at least a couple of times that Travis and Val's friends were together over the summer and I don't remember him having that much trouble. There was a problem at King's Island but that was due to his friends being upset that Tuck had lied to them; Tuck's friends are the ones that made it an uncomfortable situation. Around the first of August Tuck's friends and Travis went dancing and seemed to get along fine.

Quote:

On Val's side, things are not really much better. She doesn't seem to trust Travis very much...


Duh... Val doesn't really trust anyone except Mike, not even his parents. There are plenty of threads here about that. You are correct in stating that something would need to change for this relationship to really last but Ellen has shown that anything can, and often does, happen.

Quote:

She doesn't seem very interested in him beyond the physical attraction - how much about Travis has she felt appropriate to record in the Saga? Some vauge comments about reading, some vague comments about classical music a few conversations about the Boy Scouts (are they still the Boy Scouts in the States? Here they're now just the Scouts, since they allow girls) during which Val and Travis basically just agree to disagree. Does Travis even know about Val's synthesizer? He knows very little about her computer stuff, nothing about the gaming, apparently nothing about the guns...


I don't think we fully know about Tuck's attraction to Travis, mostly because, as you allude to later, not even Tuck knows what the attraction is. As for not knowing much about Travis, I think we could say that about almost any of the characters except Tuck and maybe Debbie. How much do we really know about Mike beyond the interests Mike and Tuck share? Even the Parker's, who have evolved into some major characters, we really don't know that much.

Travis does know about Val's synthesizer, they spent a good portion of the Christmas dance, Travis urging Val to tell him everything about what he wanted. I think it's safe to assume, considering the interest Travis had in Val's interests then, that Travis has gotten Val to talk about some of the other areas of her life. We also know of many conversations that Travis and Val where we have no idea what they talked about, even if you just include the times they've gone out to eat.

It would appear that Val has also talked to Travis about his interests. We know that there was some discussion of Scouts at the time when Val went camping (as they compared experiences), Travis even talks about why he is in Scouts (and it is still Boy Scouts in the U.S.) I think it's fairly safe that Tuck and Travis know more about each other than we've been told.

I don't think it's safe to assume anything about Tuck and Travis' relationship, just as I don't really safe to assume too much about anything that might happen in future episodes. I do believe that the relationship is over if Val disappears; however, we are also at a point where it's possible that Eugene could disappear and Tuck would be Valerie full time.

I don't know what will happen if Val and Travis break up, though I don't think Jack and Tuck is likely. Jack does seem to have an interest in transgender people but, as you point out, the age difference would be a major issue. I think we'll just have to wait for Tuck to tell us what the future is.

Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2828] Tue, 16 November 2004 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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If i've learned anything from this forum, it's that everyone has an opinion about travis, and no one is ever going to change that opinion.

Travis isn't perfect, but he doesn't need to be. they don't even need to be together forever. how many highschool romances last through college?

We've seen that tuck doesn't always have bad breakups, but that he doesn't forgive one easily. Is there any reason for him to start dating imediatly after breaking up with travis? more than likely he's just going to float around. maybe go on a few mock dates with the pack, espetialy to senior dance type things.

tuck has a lot of things to work through, and a lot of it would be easier without dating anyone. espetialy with this attack, tuck might break up with travis, just not being able to handle it anymore. Or it could draw tuck and travis closer. there's no telling which way tuck is going to bounce, or if he's going to bounce back at all.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2830] Tue, 16 November 2004 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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stripes wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 11:20

(are they still the Boy Scouts in the States? Here they're now just the Scouts, since they allow girls)


Yes, theyt are still the Boy Scouts. And unlikely to change.

We also have the Girl Scouts who started letting in boys some time ago. And who are *not* homophobic nor against atheists joining (The BSA is both).

So the situation is more than a bit complicated with the two groups, as well as a host of others (including some that are tied to specific religious sects that disaprove of the BSA).

Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2834] Wed, 17 November 2004 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stripes  is currently offline stripes
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Brooke wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 04:11

stripes wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 11:20

(are they still the Boy Scouts in the States? Here they're now just the Scouts, since they allow girls)


Yes, theyt are still the Boy Scouts. And unlikely to change.

We also have the Girl Scouts who started letting in boys some time ago. And who are *not* homophobic nor against atheists joining (The BSA is both).

So the situation is more than a bit complicated with the two groups, as well as a host of others (including some that are tied to specific religious sects that disaprove of the BSA).



Oh dear. I forgot about the "... and no cocksucking." part of the American Boy Scout promise.

Here we do have the Girl Guides, which don't admit boys (and which don't count male adults as supervision). But by age fifteen or so, the Girl Guides tend to merge with the Venturers (the fifteen-year old boys, who have a lot more independence than the younger Scouts).

Anyway, the whole quasimilitary aspect of the thing creeps me out a bit, but at least it should be harder for the Scouts to be the reservoir of machismo that I went through. Hopefully it's kept the good parts...

Anyway, to get back to topic, hopefully Eagle Scout Jensen doesn't have too much trouble coping with transgendered bisexual (?) atheist Valerie... (to be fair, he doesn't seem particularly troubled by Debbie and Lisa, and upon rereading he doesn't seem as flipped out about Tuck's other life as I remembered).

Allover
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2836] Wed, 17 November 2004 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Is TuVal an aitheist? i know thier family hates organised religion, but has there ever been any instance where TuVal has mentioned not beliving in god?
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2837] Wed, 17 November 2004 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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stripes wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 06:17


Anyway, the whole quasimilitary aspect of the thing creeps me out a bit, but at least it should be harder for the Scouts to be the reservoir of machismo that I went through. Hopefully it's kept the good parts...

Quasimilitary? *laughs* BOY SCOUTS?!
Sorry, no. In the late 80's, they removed some of the more wilderness-aspected 'merit badges' and added various 'Citizenship' ones... and looking at them now, I find for Eagle/top-rank three Citizenship badges and one "Personal Management" (Home Ec & Personal Finance), one Communications which seems to be a therapy-psychology exercise... it's starting to look far more like a limp-wristed Good Citizenship Club with uniforms.
http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/meritbadges.asp
I'd check out Venturers, which is the new version of Explorers (?), and for REAL quasimilitary options, check out Civil Air Patrol Cadets (like Sabrina) and Junior ROTC.


Ellen
nosig

Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2838] Wed, 17 November 2004 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lurker
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Part of what Ellen Hayes wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 06:12

In the late 80's, they removed some of the more wilderness-aspected 'merit badges' and added various 'Citizenship' ones... and looking at them now, I find for Eagle/top-rank three Citizenship badges and one "Personal Management" (Home Ec & Personal Finance), one Communications which seems to be a therapy-psychology exercise... it's starting to look far more like a limp-wristed Good Citizenship Club with uniforms.


OK Ellen, next time you get Val and Travis together in a conversation, a topic we want to know is whether Travis has any of these badges....just curious how limp-wristed Travis might be and Val's reaction... Razz
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2839] Wed, 17 November 2004 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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lurker wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 15:06

OK Ellen, next time you get Val and Travis together in a conversation, a topic we want to know is whether Travis has any of these badges....just curious how limp-wristed Travis might be and Val's reaction... Razz

I'm pretty sure Ellen was refering to the Merit Badges that are required for Eagle; Travis by definition has all of them. When I did it, there were 11 specifically required ones and then any ten you wanted. The Citizenship badges & such have always been a required part of the program.
Scouting varies a lot depending on what troop you wind up in. While I might think the national orginization has a real tendancy to get its head up its own ass, individual troops can still be quite good. Scouting has always been a mix of civic responsibilty and screwing around in the woods having fun.
I was relieved to note the reason they got rid of the Rifle & Shotgun shooting merit badge was because they now have separate ones for each- I was ready to get pissed.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2843] Thu, 18 November 2004 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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lurker wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 23:06


OK Ellen, next time you get Val and Travis together in a conversation, a topic we want to know is whether Travis has any of these badges...

Also remember, Travis is not going for Eagle Scout qualification in 2004, but quite a while before that. It's a lot harder to find data on what was required Back Then... though look for a webpage entitled "Troop 97 -- Eagle Scout Requirements of the BSA" which has all the changes since the qualification/award was first introduced in 1911.
lurker wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 23:06


just curious how limp-wristed Travis might be and Val's reaction... Razz

Well, considering some of Tuck's training involves titles like "React To Indirect Fire" and "Respond Promptly To Nuclear Detonation"... yah, Travis is still a kind of a pansy in Tuck's eyes. =)

"I bet you don't even know the Seven-Ten rule of fallout!"


Ellen
nosig
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2848] Thu, 18 November 2004 21:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Thu, 18 November 2004 13:03

lurker wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 23:06


just curious how limp-wristed Travis might be and Val's reaction... Razz

Well, considering some of Tuck's training involves titles like "React To Indirect Fire" and "Respond Promptly To Nuclear Detonation"... yah, Travis is still a kind of a pansy in Tuck's eyes. =)

"I bet you don't even know the Seven-Ten rule of fallout!"



God, all my manuals on that are buried in storage (when you live 2 miles from a major target, and a few miles from at least three others, there's not a lot of point in having the manuals handy )-:

Add in being likely to die (or at least be near useless) within days if the power goes out long-term and...

But I do have my copy of Dean Ing's "The Chernobyl Syndrome" relatively handy. Lots of useful info on how to improvise shelters, radiation meters, etc. Smile

BTW, it's *amazing* the looks you get as a GM when you dig out a copy of the Nuclear Weapons Effects FM. Especially if it's a "fantasy" game. Smile
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2874] Fri, 26 November 2004 01:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stripes  is currently offline stripes
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 09:12

stripes wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 06:17


Anyway, the whole quasimilitary aspect of the thing creeps me out a bit, but at least it should be harder for the Scouts to be the reservoir of machismo that I went through. Hopefully it's kept the good parts...

Quasimilitary? *laughs* BOY SCOUTS?!
Sorry, no. In the late 80's, they removed some of the more wilderness-aspected 'merit badges' and added various 'Citizenship' ones... and looking at them now, I find for Eagle/top-rank three Citizenship badges and one "Personal Management" (Home Ec & Personal Finance), one Communications which seems to be a therapy-psychology exercise... it's starting to look far more like a limp-wristed Good Citizenship Club with uniforms.
http://www.usscouts.org/usscouts/meritbadges.asp
I'd check out Venturers, which is the new version of Explorers (?), and for REAL quasimilitary options, check out Civil Air Patrol Cadets (like Sabrina) and Junior ROTC.



Hmm. We have those "I wanna be a killer when I grow up" things too - I knew a few people in them, and we always counted how many fainted every Remembrance Day[*] parade (average of twenty-odd out of several hundred). But we were there too - and after all, the *origin* of the Scouts is military (I wonder, sometimes, what the enemy army did with the native boys who they caught scouting for Baden-Powell...)

But by quasi-military I didn't mean to imply that the Scouts spend their time practicing military skills, so much as having military origin, some military customs and some military-like organization. (That said, I learned more about the arts of modern war in Scouts than I ever have in any "martial arts" class...)

Anyway, it was the macho, misogynist, racist and homophobic attitude I was made uncomfortable while actually in the Scouts. Especially the homophobia. But that was our troop, and I'm sure other troops were better about that sort of thing. Well, pretty sure. At least in Canada. Maybe.

Allover

[*] For non-Canadians: Remembrance Day is November 11th, when we formally remember those who died to save our country. Usually just a moment of silence, poppies pinned on people's coats, and a small parade of military and military-like organizations. Speeches.

P.S. I wonder if you can sew this one on your Scout uniform?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Reactor_Operator_Badge
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #2875] Fri, 26 November 2004 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
brudin  is currently offline brudin
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the book explain how to get super power ?


Brudin, palanain de Moradin.
(Moradin's paladwarf, cool joke in french Wink )
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #3168] Sun, 13 February 2005 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Re-reading the saga for the umpteenth time, I just noticed something that wasnb't significant last time I read stuff.

Mrs. Parker knows Travis' mom. And knows that Val and Travis have been dating.

This means that when the Parkers find out about Valerie being Eugene, she'll know that Travis has been dating a guy. And from stuff Val has let slip, she may suspect they've been having sex.

Which means that the odds favor her telling Travis's mom that Travis may be gay...

The odds of that go up if the Parkers are upset about Val lying to them.

One has to wonder what effects this will have on Travis due to his family's reaction.

Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #3171] Sun, 13 February 2005 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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We really don't know enough about what's going to happen to speculate much in that direction, I think. I don't put the Parkers finding out about Val as that high a probablily in the next few episodes; although it's possible. And if they do, it's probably going to be spun so that they don't automatically file Tuck as a guy, exactly. Which could easily mitigate what they would then think about Travis, or change their assumption that Val was having sex with Travis.
In other words: not impossible, but that particular chain of events seems awfully tenuous at several steps to me.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #3172] Sun, 13 February 2005 04:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Well, with Ellen I find that she seems to obey the rule articulated by Lois McMasters Bujold "What's the *worst* thing that could happen to this character..."

Not that either of them does that all the time, but they both make it *look* like it could happen. The idea is to scare the heck out of the character, and thus the readers.
Re: Where is Travis and Lisa? [message #3174] Sun, 13 February 2005 05:22 Go to previous message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 09:10

Well, with Ellen I find that she seems to obey the rule articulated by Lois McMasters Bujold "What's the *worst* thing that could happen to this character..."
Not that either of them does that all the time, but they both make it *look* like it could happen. The idea is to scare the heck out of the character, and thus the readers.


Hey, some people are just pessimistic... and some people are worse off.
Is the glass half full, half empty, or is it poisoned?
The answer to that question, of course, depends on how much you trust your surroundings and how often you've been poisoned in the past...


Ellen
nosig

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