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Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3463] Sat, 30 April 2005 03:38 Go to next message
Claire  is currently offline Claire
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For me it would have to be someone who can draw Tu-Val out of his/her geek nature to experience more of life. The only two characters I feel that can do this are Debbie or possibly Jack.

Debbie for all her faults certainly livened up Tucks life and they seemed to care a great deal for each other. I'm sure that I'm not alone in thinking that Debbie still cares a great deal for Tuck which can be seen in her recent actions. I dont buy the idea that she's just helping out a fellow human being.

Jack on the other hand is as we have seen open to relationships of a more unusual nature and is comfortable around TS people. Tuck and Jack share a common interest in music, and whenever their together they seem to have an interesting time. The age difference is an issue though.

Whilst Travis seems like a nice sweet guy it has to be said that he's as dull as dish water.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3464] Sat, 30 April 2005 05:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Claire wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 00:38

Whilst Travis seems like a nice sweet guy it has to be said that he's as dull as dish water.


Well, I get the impression that there may be more to Travis than we've yet seen. There's a lot about him that doesn't quite add up. And the stuff we have seen argues that he's a nice guy at heart, so that's good.

The big problem is that Travis is out of the loop regarding Tucks biology. And I'm not sure if he can deal with that.

I suspect that he'd handle it a lot better if Tuck decided to go full time as Val.

The back and forth stuff is not going to make him happy. He could wind up really conflicted, feeling that he can't back out now, but at the same time really unwilling to deal with Tuck in boy-mode. Or the fact that Tuck has a penis.

If Tuck tries to go male full time, he's probably going to lose Travis unless Travis is willing to bite the bullet and come out of the closet.

Then again, Tuck going full time male isn't going to go very well anyway. Or if it does, it'll take a long time. And he won't be much like he is now.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3465] Sat, 30 April 2005 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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(I made the Travis stuff seperate because it's such a can of worms).

Debbie is a possibility. But that's almost too pat.

Jack doesn't "feel" right.

I wonder if anyone else in the Pack might work?

A couple of "silly" pairings:

Tuck & Jill

Tuck & Kelly

Neither is *likely*. But each has some interesting possibilities.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3467] Sat, 30 April 2005 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 03:04

A couple of "silly" pairings:

Tuck & Jill

Tuck & Kelly

Neither is *likely*. But each has some interesting possibilities.


We've had discussions here on both possibilities, I think (I know I've made some comments).

One pairing that nobody has mentioned is Tuck and Amy. Probably with good reason, but...
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3468] Sat, 30 April 2005 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Eric wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 09:15

One pairing that nobody has mentioned is Tuck and Amy. Probably with good reason, but...


For the same reason that nobody is discussing "Tuck and Mike" -- I mean, if Tuck would feel incestuous having an affair with Mike, Amy is in a similar position. It's just wrong in the characters' minds.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3470] Sat, 30 April 2005 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Mayby it's just me, but I can see Val & Mike getting together at some point. Just not at any point we'll ever see in this story, however. Mayby in a sequel, though. I can imagine them, several years down the line, both recovering from failed relationships. They wind up "comforting" one another on their respective breakups a little too well one night; and are appaled when nobody else finds it wrong. Wacky hijinks ensue; they finally get together.

OK, that explination is way too simple & romantic comedy for the characters. I still think there's an underlying grain of truth to it, though. And it's not even what I "want" for the characters- I don't care who Tuck winds up with, as long as Tuck winds up happy with the person. I just think it's possible.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3472] Sat, 30 April 2005 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Speaking only as a writer/plotter, Debbie and Travis are the two most fulfilling choices with Mike being next. Not that Ellen couldn't write a fulfilling other choice. Smile

- Erin
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3475] Sun, 01 May 2005 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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everyone brings up that they want to see tuck get back together with deb. but i think that's done. what tuck got from debby he nolonger needs. and even while they were together, it seemed more like deb liked controling him than being with him. if tuck got back together with deb, he would always be the submissive. he'd never be able stand up for himself and deb would walk all over him. Thier relationship is over, and as time progresses, they will grow farther apart until all they have left is thier history together.

amy, she's similar to deb. i used to like her until my 3rd or 4th re-read, then i realised that she was a bitch. she used tuck and pushed him around as much if not more than deb.

Jack, i don't think he'd go for it. not only is tu-val too young, i just don't think tuck is his type. and jack is DEFINANTLY not val's type. val's a geek and survivalist. anyone val settles with is going to have to fit in to that somewhere. Jack is a worse match than travis, atleast travis would be fun to take along on a family camping trip.

Now, travis, i don't think they will stay together and get married. there IS more to travis, and i think the two will work very well with each other. Tuck is still young, and he's got a lot of growing up to do. i don't think anyone knows what tuck will be like as he gets older... i doubt Ellen even knows the specifics. there's no way to know what kinda person tuck will wind up with until it's written.

now, who would _I_ want tuck to be with? i'd like to see tuck stay together with travis for a while longer, then in a couple months, probably durring the summer, they break up. travis will be leaving for college and tuck will be smart and break it off even if travis says he'll be devouted and stay true and all that sappy stuff. but after tuck breaks up, i think he will just be single for a while. find out who he is as a person instead as part of a couple.

tuck needs to get to a point were he doesn't need mike pokeing him and reminding him to do things, making him think about things. we've seen he's capable of it, he just doesn't do it very often, or well.

whoever tuck ends up with, it should be someone he dates becouse he likes them, NOT becouse someone payed him to do it, pressured him into it, out of desperation, or worse... becouse it's the matcho thing to do.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3476] Sun, 01 May 2005 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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I doubt that anyone wants this to end up with an indecisive, submissive Tuck relating on Debbie's old terms. The whole point of a coming-of-age or self-realization story would seem to operate against that.

If Tuck and Debbie ride off into the sunset here at the end -- and assuming there IS a happy ending, that's probably the way to bet; the boy-meets-girl, boy-loses-girl, boy-gets-girl structure is too ingrained in literary culture not to be the smart wager here, whether we're rooting for or against it -- it has to be because Tuck no longer fears Debbie, wants the relationship to happen, and can make it work.

Further, Ellen would need to accomplish that by developing Tuck and not by seriously weakening Debbie's character, while still keeping the story in the mostly-rational (as opposed to magic/fantasy) world she's created here. (And preferably without bringing in a deus ex machina like Baum's Uncle John Merrick or Samantha Michelle's Granniebelle Throckton -- though I wouldn't put it past Uncle Lanier to get into the action here somehow before we're through.)

Certainly not an easy task. Working out Val's difficulties with Travis, or letting Tuck ride off with Jill (who'd be more of an equal partner in a relationship than either Travis or Debbie) or Kelly (probably the only potential romantic interest here that Tuck could dominate) would probably be an easier ending to get to.

FWIW, I don't foresee Jack getting back into the picture here; he served his original story function by educating Val and he's too acutely aware of the age difference between the two of them -- Val, after all, is the youngest T Jack's ever met and looks even younger, Jack says, as Tuck. Even if Ellen were belatedly to put Val (and/or Jill or Kim) on stage with Stepwise Pagoda, or to break up the group and have Jack audition her/them as replacements, I can't see that going anywhere romantically.

Eric
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3488] Sun, 01 May 2005 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Eric wrote on Sun, 01 May 2005 03:08

the boy-meets-girl, boy-loses-girl, boy-gets-girl structure is too ingrained in literary culture not to be the smart wager here

While I sort of see where you're coming from with this one, Tuck <> boy (or girl, necessarly) throws things way too out of whack for me to call it the smart bet. Debbie would be the last of the four characters I have on my "more likely list"; Travis, Mike, and Jill all seem more likely to me.

I really don't know, though.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3493] Mon, 02 May 2005 03:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Doragoon wrote on Sat, 30 April 2005 22:47

now, who would _I_ want tuck to be with? i'd like to see tuck stay together with travis for a while longer, then in a couple months, probably durring the summer, they break up. travis will be leaving for college and tuck will be smart and break it off even if travis says he'll be devouted and stay true and all that sappy stuff. but after tuck breaks up, i think he will just be single for a while. find out who he is as a person instead as part of a couple.


Actualy, story time is cuurently mid October. so that summer breakup with Travis would be more than six months of. Closers to seven.

Which gives time for a lot more to happen.

And frankly, a lot more is going to have to happen, as Tuck is going to have to let a number of people in on various secrets he's been keeping from them.

With Travis, it's going to be that he's not Val full time. Which is going to strain things a lot. As is "full disclosure" about Tuck's weird biology.

And then he gets to introduce Travis to his family. Becuase that's where the promise Tuck made about "how do you know you are gay" leads, inevitably.

So if they can keep it together in spite of all that, they will be a much stronger couple. Doesn't mean it'll be forever after for them, but if they can weather that, they can weather a lot.


Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3504] Tue, 03 May 2005 13:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claire  is currently offline Claire
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Whenever I think of Travis I cant get out of my mind that he's a poster child for the boy scouts. As I said earlier, he's sweet but in what way does he make Tuck life exciting. Tucks life with Travis is based entirely around sex which as a teenager is hardly unusual; the novelty of this is already starting to wear thin on both sides. When you take away sex, how many other interests do they share?

Weve seen the pack recently start to see and refer to Tuck more as Val than Eugene, I think this rules out the possibility of a relationship with any of the pack as non of them have expressed lesbian tendencies. This could change though.

I think Tu/Val needs someone to draw him/her out otherwise Tuck would spend all his time buried in a computer somewhere. The person Tu/Val does end up with has to realise that being a geek is an important part of Tucks life.

[Updated on: Tue, 03 May 2005 17:50]

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3505] Tue, 03 May 2005 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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Quote:

As I said earlier, he's sweet but in what way does he make Tuck life exciting.

I think Tu/Val needs someone to draw him/her out otherwise Tuck would spend all his time buried in a computer somewhere. The person Tu/Val does end up with has to realise that being a geek is an important part of Tucks life.


i'd say that what is exciting is what's differant or unusual. tuck lives a rather exciting life to most of us, it's what keeps us reading. But to tuck, things like night-ops, jumping out of a second story window, and stabbing a killer guard dog are all just his normal life. what might be exciting for him could be going to his boyfreind's football game, leading a bunch of childish brats on a leasurly hike through the woods, or playing put-put with freinds.

Tuck's problem with being with travis's freinds seems to be that travis forgets about him. Tuck isn't meshing well with travis's freinds.(i wonder how well travis will mesh with da boyz) This isn't a fatal flaw in thier relationship, infact, it could make it stronger as long as they recognise that fact.

i think we've missed out on a lot of the "getting to know you" talk that they have had. looking at time stamps and the number of dates they have had. they have had a lot more time together than is explained by the usual kissing, petting, fucking, napping. Ellen has specificly left out a lot of travis. and i'm thinking that there's more to travis than tuck realises, so ellen is leaving out those parts that would clue us into something that doesn't occur to tuck. or something that tuck doesn't want to face...
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3506] Wed, 04 May 2005 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Claire wrote on Tue, 03 May 2005 10:27

We've seen the pack recently start to see and refer to Tuck more as Val than Eugene.

Actually, I'd disagree a little. Most of the Pack seemed to start thinking of her as Val even before they knew there was a medical reason to. His hospitalization has sort of forced them to think of him as Tuck again, since events at school and with Tuck's family have moved to the forefront.

Claire, continued

I think this rules out the possibility of a relationship with any of the pack as none of them have expressed lesbian tendencies. This could change though.

There's Kim. The impression I got from her visit(s) to "womyn's" bookstores is that she'd like to be lesbian but isn't physically attracted to women. I suppose this (if true) can be adequately explained by her justifiable fear of relationships with males; still, it seems to complicate the way she reacts to Tuck.

On the most superficial level, she considers Val a friend and confidante, and the ideal person to discuss Mike with, while at best she can't understand Tuck's male side -- combat readiness, his participation in his family's "craziness", even his need for defensive strategy against real enemies who have put him in the hospital -- and at worst her actions have been the unwitting (or is it?) cause of most of Tuck's recent troubles.

One can psychoanalyze her behavior (at considerable peril) as stemming in some way from jealousy over the Tuck-Mike bond. Certainly the latest detail -- Kim's unwillingness to understand why Mike won't go dancing with her while Tuck's in the hospital and all Tuck's friends (including her) are in physical danger -- almost leaps in that direction.

But if so, is that underlying feeling based on her inability, because of Tuck, to be the most important personal relationship in Mike's life?

Or is she upset at some unconscious level that Mike's presence in Tuck's life prevents her from pursuing the one person whose combination of male and female attributes could work around both her body's apparent inability to respond to women and her mind's fear of assertive male sexuality? (Or that she and Tuck never had the chance to see if a relationship would work because she was already involved with Mike by the time Tuck got free of Debbie?)

That's, admittedly, quite a stretch since I've seen no sign either of physical attraction between the two nor of Kim trying to avoid physical contact in fear of something developing. But for some reason I'm reluctant to dismiss the possibility out of hand.

Eric
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3507] Wed, 04 May 2005 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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For another perspective in Kim's troubles relating to either sex, have look at Ellen's "Bikini Beach: All Tucked Up."

OK, it's non-canonical; it says so right here on the label. But, since it IS by Ellen herself, one has to assume that it's true to how Ellen sees Kim.

SPOILER BELOW:




From "BB:ATU", I gather that:
1- Kim actually likes Mike.
2- Her body has no objections to girls.
3- She has a lot of trust issues with men in general.

Interpretation:

Kim has trust issues with men, although she is attracted to them. She is also a borderline alcoholic, and insecure about her weight. We do know of at least two girls (Debbie and Ellen) who have been raped. Kim might be another case -- this might explain a lot.

There's a lot of bisexualism going on the Tuck universe. Lisa, Debbie, Tuck and possibly Kim (BB:ATU shows she is not repulsed by the idea of sex with girls).

The Packettes, generally speaking, are girls who have more than their share of issues and gathered in a kind of mutual support group. We know what some of their issues are:

- Debbie: orphaned, raped, lack of money
- Jill: abusive (violent, not sexually, I guess) stepfather, jerk stepbrothers who sucked up all family funds, lack of positive female role model.
- Pam: abusive dance teacher, unconcerned parents.
- Kathy: (I don't have much on her. The best I could get is that her height was a stumbling block on relationships -- other kids making fun of her and such...)
- Lisa: lack of parental love. Clinical depression.
- Ellen (part-time member): raped

Now, we don't know much about what made the other girls join the Pack instead of one of the more "mainstream" cliques. I mean, what ARE Amanda's or Sabrina's problems, anyway? They seem fairly mainstream to me. Are they in the "rape survivors club" too? Seems too simplistic...


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3509] Wed, 04 May 2005 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
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Sir Lee wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 09:29

Now, we don't know much about what made the other girls join the Pack instead of one of the more "mainstream" cliques. I mean, what ARE Amanda's or Sabrina's problems, anyway? They seem fairly mainstream to me. Are they in the "rape survivors club" too? Seems too simplistic...



Amanda and Sabrina may have joined the Pack simply because they were friends with one or more of the other girls before the Pack formed.

Also I seem to remember Amanda having trouble with relationships. There was that time when they met the band and she was crying to Valerie about not having anybody. This seems like a minor problem compared to the rest of the Pack, however.

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3510] Wed, 04 May 2005 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
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Many people keep mentioning Tuck and Jill as a possible couple but I can't see it. Perhaps because they are always joking about being madly in love with each other as the reason for joining the cosmo class. Or maybe because I see Jill and Valerie more as girlfriends. But this is just me, perhaps.

Jill has kissed Tu-Val, however. So has Kim. But the girls were just trying to figure if Tu-Val kisses more like a girl or a boy. But they all enjoyed the kissing.

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3511] Wed, 04 May 2005 17:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Josea wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 11:45

Many people keep mentioning Tuck and Jill as a possible couple but I can't see it. Perhaps because they are always joking about being madly in love with each other as the reason for joining the cosmo class. Or maybe because I see Jill and Valerie more as girlfriends. But this is just me, perhaps.


Well, I know that I mentioned it as a silly possibility.

It's silly because as far as "normal" gender behavior goes, Jill is at least as messed up as Tuck. He's better at being a girl than a guy. She's better at being a guy than a girl.

So pairing them is a statement of sorts.

Getting off on a tangent a bit:

If Tuck wasn't likely to be too messed up to do anything on Halloween, I could see the two of them doing something where she was the male and he was the female.

And I half expect that at some point her stepfather is going to Do Something and Da Boyz and the Pack will find a way to see that he's dealt with.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3512] Wed, 04 May 2005 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claire  is currently offline Claire
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Brooke wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 23:01


It's silly because as far as "normal" gender behavior goes, Jill is at least as messed up as Tuck. He's better at being a girl than a guy. She's better at being a guy than a girl.



I'm afraid that I dont see this at all. The only masculine type behaiour that I've noticed from Jill is that she doesnt like to wear a skirt or make up. I think Jill is just a bit of a tom boy which is quite understandable given that her step father and brothers are the overiding influence in the family. It very well might be that she is looked down upon by them for showing feminine characteristics and that is why she hides them.

I suspect that Jill might be curious what it would be like to be with Tuck and may even at some point try and take things a bit further, I doubt though that it would go much further than that.

As for the idea that Kim might have lesbian feelings because she goes to a womyn's bookstore, I definatly dont understand this. Wanting to understand and express feminine and/or feminist views has nothing to do with your sexuality. Confused

[Updated on: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:09]

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3515] Wed, 04 May 2005 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Claire wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 17:07

Brooke wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 23:01


It's silly because as far as "normal" gender behavior goes, Jill is at least as messed up as Tuck. He's better at being a girl than a guy. She's better at being a guy than a girl.



I'm afraid that I dont see this at all. The only masculine type behaiour that I've noticed from Jill is that she doesnt like to wear a skirt or make up. I think Jill is just a bit of a tom boy which is quite understandable given that her step father and brothers are the overiding influence in the family. It very well might be that she is looked down upon by them for showing feminine characteristics and that is why she hides them.


Jill is a tomboy who has no idea how to not be one.

She's stated several times that she's got no idea about fashion, makeup etc.

And she doeslike a lot of the stuff da Boyz do.

I'd say that as far as behavior goes, that puts her as far from normal as Tuck is.

Claire wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 17:07

As for the idea that Kim might have lesbian feelings because she goes to a womyn's bookstore, I definatly dont understand this. Wanting to understand and express feminine and/or feminist views has nothing to do with your sexuality. Confused


Yeah, but she was buying poetry books she couldn't get anywhere else. Not books on feminism. That kinda restriucts the possibilities.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3516] Wed, 04 May 2005 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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i don't know why, but i thought sabrina was in the group becouse she was a JAP. how prejudiced are the students in that school?
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3517] Wed, 04 May 2005 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claire  is currently offline Claire
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I just know that if anyone started reciting lesbian poetry at the womyn's meetings I went to whist at university, a lot of the women there would have felt uncomfortable. There were a few gay / bi women who attended the meetings but we usually kept our sexuality out of the conversations as the majority who attended were hetrosexual. Things may be different in the US though I admit.

On your other point
Does having no idea about fashion, makeup etc make you any less feminine?

I disagree entirely with you on this statement.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 May 2005 23:06]

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3519] Thu, 05 May 2005 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Claire wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03

I just know that if anyone started reciting lesbian poetry at the womyn's meetings I went to whist at university, a lot of the women there would have felt uncomfortable. There were a few gay / bi women who attended the meetings but we usually kept our sexuality out of the conversations as the majority who attended were hetrosexual. Things may be different in the US though I admit.


I'm not entirely sure what connection Kim buying poetry at a "Womyn's bookstore" has to do what what is proper behaviour at a womyn's meeting?

My point was that the most likely sort of poetry that she could get there and not at a regular bookstore would be lesbian. Not the only sort, just more likely.

Claire wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03

On your other point Does having no idea about fashion, makeup etc make you any less feminine?


No more than Tuck's disinterest in sports, "macho" pursuits, etc made him less masculine even before Debbie.

They both fail to match the "expected" or even if you will "stereotypical" role.

Claire wrote on Wed, 04 May 2005 20:03

I disagree entirely with you on this statement.


The point was that both Tuck and Kim are pretty far from what is considered "normal" for their gender. And in ways that sort of match up.

Thus the siliness factor in matching them up. The old "opposites attract" bit.

Contrary to what you appear to be reading into my commemnts, I'm not saying that there's anything *wrong* with them. Just that thjey "aren't normal" in much the same way (though from opposite directions.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3520] Thu, 05 May 2005 06:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mthead  is currently offline mthead
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I'm new to this forum so have been lurking and reading. Time for my 2 cents. I agree with Claire that so far Travis has been as visable as Charlie Brown's mother. Little is known about him but I also agree with Brooke that we will see much more of him and his character in the future. It seems he would be very impressed with Bill Tucker and fit in fairly wellwith the rest of the Tucker clan. Also,I am sure that there is probably as much turmoil in his emotional life as anybody in the Pack. I look for an emergence of him as a protector emotionally (even Teddy helps keep the nightmares away) and physically (he is a big guy). I also think this would work out best if he "realizes" his homosexual tendencies and addresses them. Sarah will probably be better able to deal with a gay son than with her eldest son becoming her daughter.

I really don't see a romantic partner in the Pack. But the possibility is there. But,if any of them then Jill and only for a while to help get over Travis if that comes about. I think Kim & Mike are becoming fused (someone has to represent the straight relationship)which means NoWay Tuck gets involved.
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3521] Thu, 05 May 2005 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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"Oooh ooh ooh! I know! Tuck and KATHY!" Tuck laughs.

"Are you outta your mind?" Kathy complains. "I DON'T date girls."

Tuck's mouth falls open, then in a high shrill voice he complains, "Oh!
Well!" and tosses his hair angrily. "So you don't think I'm MANLY
enough for you huh?" accompanying 'manly' with a very voluptuous hip
wiggle.

Kathy, laughing herself sideways, is unable to reply...

"Oh, well," Julia inserts, sounding half-bored, "you look about as
manly as the guys I see every day."

"Theater fags!" Kim sneers.

"Better than BAND DYKES!" Julia mock-snarls back.

Kathy's amusement has escalated to shrieking whoops, which cuts further
communications, though now everyone can laugh at the spectacle she's
presenting...


Ellen
nosig
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3524] Fri, 06 May 2005 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sharphawlad  is currently offline Sharphawlad
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Registered: May 2005
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Embarassed

Personally I would like to see Tuck/Valerie end up with both Amy & Debbie. Travis is a non runner & certainly willbe no good for Tuck. Amy & Debbie both understand Tuck & would make great partners for him. Amy can have Tuck, While Debbie prefers Valerie & both are kept happy Embarassed Embarassed
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3525] Fri, 06 May 2005 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Senior Member
Amy and Tuck just aren't gonna do that. Recall the way they both reacted to the (mistaken) idea that they were having sex with each other.

And Amy likes Val as well as Tuck. She just gets upset when Val has a boyfriend and she doesn't.

I can see Amy being Tuck & Val's "best friend" (as opposed to Mike who is far beyond that). But sex? No. Ditto for dating.

Whoever Tuck/Val winds up with, I hope it's someone he can be happy with. And that if they break up, it's a friendly breakup. Something where they realize things aren't working, but can remain friends.

Heck, if all that happens between Tuck & Debbie is that they can forgive each other for the way the breakup happened and be friends again, I'd count that as a major plus.

[Updated on: Fri, 06 May 2005 23:16]

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3702] Mon, 13 June 2005 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josea  is currently offline Josea
Messages: 56
Registered: December 2004
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Member
sluggo wrote on Thu, 05 May 2005 15:46

...

Travis likes Val. Travis hasn't really ever met Eugene. It doesn't sound like Travis is attracted to guys. He is just considerate enough to not let Val's guy parts get in the way of their relationship. I don't think it will last, just because it is a highschool romance. They are not meant to last. Val (and Travis) are still learning how to have a relationship. Trav seems like a great guy and whoever he ends up with will be lucky, except for the fact that he seems like he will only be qualified to be a car salesman. (Though he will be the nice one that doesn't try to sell you all the useless accesories, and as such will always be in trouble with his boss.)

...
Only qualified to be a car salesman? I don't see that at all. What I see as future employment for Travis something that takes his background into consideration. He's a boyscout. He works well in a team. He is athletic. Posible careers would include policeman, fire fighter, parametic, high school PE instructor and depending on how well he plays basketball, a professional athlete.

I doubt he'll be interested in sales of any kind.

Just my thoughts.

Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3710] Mon, 13 June 2005 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
Messages: 76
Registered: May 2005
Location: RTP NC
Member
Would you like fries with that?

On a different note: how many people moving toward college (that includes most of the on-stage cast at McAllen) retain ties with people they knew in high school? Not that it can't happen, but ... dunno. Tu-Val's got identity issues to work through. Think all these relationships are going to last through that?

Amy!
Re: Who would you like to see Tuck/Val end up with? [message #3713] Mon, 13 June 2005 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
Messages: 589
Registered: September 2003
Senior Member
Amy! wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 16:02

On a different note: how many people moving toward college (that includes most of the on-stage cast at McAllen) retain ties with people they knew in high school? Not that it can't happen, but ... dunno. Tu-Val's got identity issues to work through. Think all these relationships are going to last through that?

Well, I don't know about ALL of the relationships. I think some will, though. If nothing else, Mike is not going to stop being Tuck's brother.
Lasting Relationships [message #3715] Tue, 14 June 2005 02:00 Go to previous message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
Messages: 641
Registered: January 2003
Location: San Francisco
Senior Member
Amy! wrote on Mon, 13 June 2005 16:02

On a different note: how many people moving toward college (that includes most of the on-stage cast at McAllen) retain ties with people they knew in high school? Not that it can't happen, but ... dunno. Tu-Val's got identity issues to work through. Think all these relationships are going to last through that?



No, but (1) I doubt that Ellen intends the story to get past high school, and (2) I think if nothing changed, Tuck (or Val) would end up involved in college with a group very similar to the Pack, even if the names and individual personalities differed. (Of course, if nothing changed, you wouldn't have a story.) Under those circumstances you might as well make them the same people for story purposes, as opposed to making one's readers learn a whole new set of names and characteristics.

Other than Mike, Da Boyz are probably superfluous as far as the future goes. I think they're close to that already, except as generic support. Tuck needs SOME people on his side to use for subversive physical activity, since that's out of the Pack's line and there's no way he wants to rely on Debbie and Lisa's connections or to ask Travis to put a posse together. But I don't think it matters much in the long run whether it's Dan, George and sometimes Book or somebody else (Moe, Larry and sometimes Shemp?). That's assuming, of course, that there's nothing important about D, G and B that we don't know about (like Book working both sides of the street).

As for whether romantic relationships with Debbie or Travis (or anyone else we already know) last through or past college, it's really not very important, as long as the story ends before then -- just let the happy couple walk hand in hand into the sunset and don't worry about the midnight storms.

Consider Samantha Michelle's version of Tuck and Debbie in I Am Not Alone, for example, since that's one that does already have a romantic final resolution. Even when it was written, making Valerie's college education contingent on a grant to Debbie from Granniebelle Throckton would have been almost certain to lead to tough sledding down the road unless Val remained as submissive to Debbie as she'd been so far. (To be fair, Tuck's development up to that point didn't really suggest that Val would be any more assertive toward Debbie than Tuck had been.) But that's not something I ever focused on until you asked the question here.

And then again, if Ellen decides to kill Tuck off before the end of high school, the whole question's moot.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 June 2005 02:03]

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