Home » Tuck Fanfic » Other Fanfics » The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.")
The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3477] Sun, 01 May 2005 07:23 Go to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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... is now available on my site, as some people have already discovered. Smile Note that the site itself now supports RSS feeds in several formats, so with an RSS aggregator (such as is built into Thunderbird, Firefox and Safari) you can automatically be notified of new chapters.


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3480] Sun, 01 May 2005 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Uh, OK. So it looks like the initial focus here won't be on Valerie after all. Anyway...

Obviously we're supposed to have more questions than answers at this point. But is Eleanor real, or is she a persona invented by Nathan as his "distancing" trick?

Quote:

Its not happening to me, he begged silently. Not to me. Let it happen to someone else. He was distracted by the other girl who joined him silently on the bench.

Seems straightforward enough to be taken literally as another person, and there are three place settings at the table, but:

1. Nathan (Jonathan) is supposed, according to the Prologue, to be Jane's first student.

2. Marie tells him that "Jane and Miss Valerie will be joining you in a few moments," with no mention of Eleanor.

3. Eleanor "reminds" Nathan of her name, though we've never seen him learn it in the first place.

4. Eleanor seems amused over an internal monologue by Nathan regarding which fork and knife to use, though her amusement could simply be at his action in picking them up.

5. Valerie isn't ever shown serving Eleanor at the meal, though Nathan sees Eleanor eating.

6. Jane answers a comment by Eleanor at the table (without using either student's name in her reply), but continues the conversation with a statement -- "Which is why I propose to begin your re-education with a thorough training in refined manners..." directed at Nathan, to which Nathan responds.

7. Valerie very specifically brings in only two glasses of sherry.

Eric
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3483] Sun, 01 May 2005 09:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Another interesting point... the chat session, early in this chapter.

At first I thought it was between Tuck/Val and Valerie -- Tuck has used the "Jester" handle in the past (although it's probably a fairly common handle), and "Lacuna" seemed to fit Valerie somehow. Of course, it turned out not to be so, but...

...I wonder if "Jester" is actuall Tu-Val? There are some hints there to make it *possible* -- maybe not probable, but still...

- the "private joke" referring to "feeling emasculated";
- the way Jester referred to something as being a "me-ism" just after Lacuna mentioned a "birthyday", and Lacuna acknowledging that he had "caught" it from Jester;
- Jester has displayed some feminine characteristics, like implying a boyfriend.
- Jester seems to be an American -- not familiar with some of Lacuna's slang/pop references and such

If it IS Tu-Val (or even Valerie, that's possible too), I wonder if this is just an weird coincidence? Or did either Tu-Val or Valerie deliberately befriended Lacuna in the hacker circles, in a preparatory move to Nathan's arrival?


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3486] Sun, 01 May 2005 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Good story. At first, I was a little worried about how similar it seemed to Tuck's original encounter with Jane, until I figured out just how creative it was getting in highlighting the similarities, while sneaking the differences in on the edges. A lot of very interesting misdirection going on, as near as I can tell. It also did a better job than I can recall in a long time of showing just how alien, for lack of a better word, Jane's world would be to a new student. Just calling Valerie "Miss Thompson", for example, pulled me away from what I thought I knew. Well done.

There are still a lot of minor questions left from the prologue, though. I want to know what Jane got Valerie as her main birthyday present, for one thing.

I'm going to need to think and re-read on both Eric's and Sir Lee's theories. My gut reaction is Eleanor is real, and Jester is either Valerie or Val; but, like I said, this chapter seems to be all about misdirection.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3494] Mon, 02 May 2005 04:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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If Jester is Valerie (as opposed to Val in the U.S.), than her claim that a guy just phoned her and is on his way would almost have to be misdirection -- there don't seem to be any possibilities here. On the other hand, there are plenty of guys (Mike, for one) who'd come to visit Val, though we don't know whether she was able to re-establish her relationship with Travis.

Did the information on Nathan's latest incursions come from Valerie, either directly or through Val? Occam's Razor suggests it; Tuck's Hacker Ethic ought to recoil at the thought. (Unless Valerie believes or knows that Nathan IS a criminal bent on destruction, like the one preying on Freehold that Tuck and Bill apprehended before the timelines split.)

The extent to which Valerie is cooperating here seems uncertain. She did drug Nathan and lie to him about it initially, though she couldn't do so a second time. But was her not eating with them some sort of protest? Marie gave Nathan the impression that Valerie would be at the table. Three places were set. If Eleanor doesn't exist -- or if she's a visitor who wasn't mentioned by Marie simply because she wasn't expected -- that would indicate a last-minute change of plan, presumably stemming from Valerie's private meeting with Jane just before the meal.

Still, that seems a really backward way for Valerie to proceed. If she didn't want to cooperate, Marie could have served the meal, with or without Valerie present.

(I'm bothered, a little, by Nathan's observation that Valerie took up a spot disconcertingly "just outside his line of sight". I keep taking up a weird line of thought along the lines that Valerie did in fact take the third seat and eat with Jane and Nathan after serving them (as would be expected from one of Jane's students), but that Nathan's (mis)perception of Eleanor made Valerie invisible to him while she was there -- thereby leading to flawed reasoning about Valerie's place in the household. I'm not sure why I'd think so, though, except that our third-person narrator's take on reality has seemed seriously unworthy of our trust ever since the dream in the prologue.)

Eric

[Updated on: Mon, 02 May 2005 04:08]

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3495] Mon, 02 May 2005 07:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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"Eleanor" is a bit puzzling. Still not sure if she is real or not.

But there are a couple of *other* items of interest. One I noted as odd the first time I read the chapter, the second struck me as possibly significant when I re-read the chapter.

Anomaly one: Those boxer shorts that Nathan is wearing. It is *specifically* noted that they are sewn shut. Which is something I only have run into when *females* are wearing boxers.

Anomaly two: Nathan is excused from sports and the like. And he's "small and slight".

Gee, who else do we know who fits that description.

Not quite an anomaly, but he didn't want Valerie to see his body either.

BTW, I'm rather amazed that Valerie and Nathan are the only kids to have realized that they've been drugged. And that Jane hasn't had a problem or two with administering sedatives *with* alcohol.

I recall darn near falling on my face when I was in my early 20s and had a beer after taking an anti-histamine. But that's a "fault" of the Season's "formula", not anything specific to this story.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3496] Mon, 02 May 2005 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

If Jester is Valerie (as opposed to Val in the U.S.), than her claim that a guy just phoned her and is on his way would almost have to be misdirection -- there don't seem to be any possibilities here. On the other hand, there are plenty of guys (Mike, for one) who'd come to visit Val, though we don't know whether she was able to re-establish her relationship with Travis.


My money is on Val back in the US. And the guy being Travis.
Because it reads like she has a date

Also, given that Val is stuck with a metered, dial on demand connection argues against her being in chat very often. Since Jester and Lacuna know each other well, that implies lots of chat time.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

Did the information on Nathan's latest incursions come from Valerie, either directly or through Val? Occam's Razor suggests it; Tuck's Hacker Ethic ought to recoil at the thought. (Unless Valerie believes or knows that Nathan IS a criminal bent on destruction, like the one preying on Freehold that Tuck and Bill apprehended before the timelines split.)


The way Lacuna behaved towards LORDDOOM is the sort of "sledgehammer to deal with an ant" approach that real hackers (like Tuck) strongly disapprove of.

One of the major differences between hackers and crackers is that hackers don't mess stuff up. Nathan does.

Jester's "you didn't need to do that" is telling.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

The extent to which Valerie is cooperating here seems uncertain. She did drug Nathan and lie to him about it initially, though she couldn't do so a second time. But was her not eating with them some sort of protest?


From the Prologue, it's just as likely that Valerie did the serving simply to avoid having to do the table manners and chit-chat. And it gives her a good way to observe Nathan for stuff that Valerie thinks Jane might not pick up on.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

Marie gave Nathan the impression that Valerie would be at the table. Three places were set. If Eleanor doesn't exist -- or if she's a visitor who wasn't mentioned by Marie simply because she wasn't expected -- that would indicate a last-minute change of plan, presumably stemming from Valerie's private meeting with Jane just before the meal.


Or Eleanor isn't real and Nathan "invented" the third place setting.

BTW, a telling fact is that Eleanor calls him Nathan without being introduced. So if she's a visitor, she's a well briefed one. And the "smiling at Valerie and getting a 'look'" before Valerie goes back to her book seems odd behavior if Eleanor is real.

I suspect that we'll find that Nathan's "distancing" trick is a form of dissocation. In which case, trying really hard for that and wishing strongly for it to "happen to someone else" is exactly the sort of thing that leads to multiple personalities in some people.

And in that case, Eleanor is a new part of Nathan, and anything she said was actually coming from him.

I'll have to see if I can get one of the multiples I know to read the story and see what they think of that possibility.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

Still, that seems a really backward way for Valerie to proceed. If she didn't want to cooperate, Marie could have served the meal, with or without Valerie present.


See my comment about being better to observe Nathan. Valerie is rather better equipped than Jane to notice certain signs. She likely figures Nathan is as paranoid as she was when she wound up at Seasons House.

[quote title=Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07](I'm bothered, a little, by Nathan's observation that Valerie took up a spot disconcertingly "just outside his line of sight".

All the better to be ready to intercept him if he tries something.

BTW, I think the comments about the way Valerie kept noting how little he ate tend to support the idea that Valerie was keepiong an eye on things.

And I keep wondering about a few spots during the interview in Jane's office. I kept feeling like Valerie might be listening in. And that things like that finger tap of Jane's were a signal of some sort.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 01:07

I keep taking up a weird line of thought along the lines that Valerie did in fact take the third seat and eat with Jane and Nathan after serving them (as would be expected from one of Jane's students), but that Nathan's (mis)perception of Eleanor made Valerie invisible to him while she was there -- thereby leading to flawed reasoning about Valerie's place in the household. I'm not sure why I'd think so, though, except that our third-person narrator's take on reality has seemed seriously unworthy of our trust ever since the dream in the prologue.)


Doesn't work. If Val is serving, she wouldn't be sitting at the table. One or the other, but not both.


[Updated on: Mon, 02 May 2005 07:58]

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3498] Mon, 02 May 2005 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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-- Thanks, Brooke, on the hacker thing. Travis is the desirable answer, but I'm not sure he'd still be on board after two changes of direction by Val.

-- On my serving theory, it's true Valerie can't be returning to the kitchen with compliments for the chef (some kind of code?) or fixing Nathan's water glass and eating at the same time. And I couldn't find anything in the story to support it, except for the third place setting. (The setting itself almost has to be real. Given Nathan's reasonable expectation that Valerie would be eating with them, when he entered the room he'd have imagined that there were four place settings if he'd been inventing one for a nonexistent Eleanor.)

But how DID Jane handle it in Seasons? No formal serving lessons in actual meals and teas when no strangers were present? Surely none of the students were eating in the kitchen with Marie, or missing their meals at Jane's demand.

-- I'm chagrined at missing the underwear. I caught the oddity on the second or third reading, but not what it could have meant.

-- (I assume everyone noted that Jack, telling the changeling tale at the start, is addressed as Kathryn. Of course, we don't know if those characters (as opposed to the tale itself) will have any significance.

And that having learned from Valerie's experience, both Jane and Valerie are VERY determined to identify Nathan by middle name and passport photo before taking him home. Nice touch, Rachel.)

-- BTW, anyone else wonder about the reality of Nathan's memory of brutality from an armed secret police force? Reminds me of some of Tuck's more dire thoughts about how his family will react (you haven't been assassinated, so Mom can't be THAT mad at you), and of course his nightmares.

Eric
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3501] Mon, 02 May 2005 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

-- Thanks, Brooke, on the hacker thing. Travis is the desirable answer, but I'm not sure he'd still be on board after two changes of direction by Val.


Well, even if it isn't Travis, that sequence screamed "date" at me.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

-- On my serving theory, it's true Valerie can't be returning to the kitchen with compliments for the chef (some kind of code?) or fixing Nathan's water glass and eating at the same time. And I couldn't find anything in the story to support it, except for the third place setting. (The setting itself almost has to be real. Given Nathan's reasonable expectation that Valerie would be eating with them, when he entered the room he'd have imagined that there were four place settings if he'd been inventing one for a nonexistent Eleanor.)


Ok, I'll buy Valerie serving being a last minute change. So the "extra" place setting would help Nathan "imagine" Eleanor.

BTW, until Jane responded to a comment from "Eleanor" I was wondering if Eleanor was a ghost or spirit that was manifesting to Nathan. (I have suspicions about Abbie's "imaginary" friend from the Prologue as well)

But once Jane responded, that limited the choices to "real person" and "Nathan going multiple".

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

But how DID Jane handle it in Seasons? No formal serving lessons in actual meals and teas when no strangers were present? Surely none of the students were eating in the kitchen with Marie, or missing their meals at Jane's demand.


In the stories, we see the girls serving tea. I don't recall any of them serving meals. Which fits, as serving tea is something the Lady of the house might be doing. Serving a meal isn't.

I could dig thru the stories (fortunately, I'd made local copies of all the Seasons stories on Tigger's site before her hosting service went nuts a couple of weeks back). But I think I'd have recalled something like that.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

-- I'm chagrined at missing the underwear. I caught the oddity on the second or third reading, but not what it could have meant.


Well, I had extra incentive to notice that. You see, I started reading the chapter artound noon, and read more while getting ready for a "Femme-identified" slumber party someone I knew was throwing.

And I didn't finish it until I was lying down waiting for my nose to clear before I went to sleep (long story).

So I had gender and gender presentation on the mind. Smile

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

-- (I assume everyone noted that Jack, telling the changeling tale at the start, is addressed as Kathryn. Of course, we don't know if those characters (as opposed to the tale itself) will have any significance.


Yep. In fact I wentt back and re-read that section several times befoore going on to the chat-log section.

I wonder what Kathryn/Jack has to do after everyone is asleep?

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

And that having learned from Valerie's experience, both Jane and Valerie are VERY determined to identify Nathan by middle name and passport photo before taking him home. Nice touch, Rachel.)


But Jane (not having been through it) hasn't learned enough from Valerie's experience with regards to drugging and students too scared to eat. Then again, I wonder if she can learn that lessoon second-hand. Nathan may be a wake-up call.

Eric wrote on Mon, 02 May 2005 14:14

-- BTW, anyone else wonder about the reality of Nathan's memory of brutality from an armed secret police force? Reminds me of some of Tuck's more dire thoughts about how his family will react (you haven't been assassinated, so Mom can't be THAT mad at you), and of course his nightmares.


I think it's real. What he describes *is* the way the British intelligence services would respond from what I've heard.

It's got too many *details* that you wouldn't have if it wasn't real. Like noting the crumbs and hair in the carpet. And his fear when Jane threatens him with those logs has the flavor of someone who has been there, not someone who is imagining how bad it will be.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3513] Wed, 04 May 2005 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Claire  is currently offline Claire
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I think it's real. What he describes *is* the way the British intelligence services would respond from what I've heard.

It's got too many *details* that you wouldn't have if it wasn't real. Like noting the crumbs and hair in the carpet. And his fear when Jane threatens him with those logs has the flavor of someone who has been there, not someone who is imagining how bad it will be.



MI6 have been known to be heavy handed in the responces to hackers/crackers especially since David Pepper took over as the head of GCHQ. This is usually only in cases where terrorism is thought to be involved. Then again if Jonathan was going after military targets then they might well interpret his actions as hostile rather than curious.

[Updated on: Wed, 04 May 2005 21:04]

Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3514] Wed, 04 May 2005 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Another things to consider on the whole Nathan thing:

1. The earliest mention i've seen to a sequel to "Tuck Squared" was to a story to be named "Tuck Cubed."
2. "You Are Not Alone" is also the title to a previous Tuck fanfic.

Considering both, AND the fact that Nathan has apparently a LOT of similarities to Tuck, I wonder...
Is Nathan yet a THIRD version of Tuck? One who diverged far earlier than Tuck-Val and Valerie? Maybe one who was orphaned early (don't forget that Nathan was adopted...)?

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3527] Sat, 07 May 2005 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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My impression -- which certainly could be wrong, since I'm very vague on the timing in the U.K. education system -- was that Valerie was at least a year ahead of Nathan, because he was being prepared for testing that could qualify him for a college like the one Valerie is attending.

Is that correct? It'd seem to have a bearing on Sir Lee's theory that Nathan's a parallel Tuck.

Eric

(FWIW, whether you're right about Nathan or not, I can't see either "Tuck Cubed" or "I Am Not Alone", as titles, as having any bearing on this, if only because Rachel didn't have anything to do with either of them.)
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3528] Sat, 07 May 2005 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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While doing some research for an attempt at a Season's story, I stumbled across a case where Jane did have a student serving the lunch on the first day

Kendra's Story

The meal had gone precisely as Jane had feared. The extensive, formal table ware setting had not bothered Kenneth a bit. As Darla had served each course, he had unerringly chosen the correct implement each time, without once looking to see which fork or spoon Jane picked up. He'd even skipped the provided shrimp fork when no shrimp cocktail was served.

Worse, he'd politely seated Darla after she had served each course and had waited until she had served herself before he began to eat each new course. Had someone sent this boy to a summer camp run by Emily Post and if so, why hadn't she been apprized of that fact?


So we may have to re-evaluate the idea of Valerie not sitting at the table after serving.


Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3529] Sat, 07 May 2005 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Quote:

(FWIW, whether you're right about Nathan or not, I can't see either "Tuck Cubed" or "I Am Not Alone", as titles, as having any bearing on this, if only because Rachel didn't have anything to do with either of them.)


No, what I meant was that, way back when a possible sequel (by Rachel) to "Tuck Squared" was mentioned, one title which was floated around was "Tuck Cubed" -- which seems to imply a third Tuck.

Assuming "The Taken" is an evolution of the idea code-named "Tuck Cubed" (as opposed to abandoning that original idea and taking an entirely different tack), a third Tuck seems reasonable to expect.

You are right in that "I Am Not Alone" (by Samantha Michelle) is not related to "Tuck Squared" in any way. But the similarity in names is intriguing by itself. I wonder if it was a deliberate reference by Rachel?

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3530] Sat, 07 May 2005 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sat, 07 May 2005 14:11

While doing some research for an attempt at a Season's story, I stumbled across a case where Jane did have a student serving the lunch on the first day

Kendra's Story

The meal had gone precisely as Jane had feared. The extensive, formal table ware setting had not bothered Kenneth a bit. As Darla had served each course, he had unerringly chosen the correct implement each time, without once looking to see which fork or spoon Jane picked up. He'd even skipped the provided shrimp fork when no shrimp cocktail was served.

Worse, he'd politely seated Darla after she had served each course and had waited until she had served herself before he began to eat each new course. Had someone sent this boy to a summer camp run by Emily Post and if so, why hadn't she been apprized of that fact?


So we may have to re-evaluate the idea of Valerie not sitting at the table after serving.





FWIW the original story, Joel Lawrence's Seasons of Change, depicts that first lunch being served by Beth, the 'big sister'.

Several stories don't actually include the scene at all, because the narrative starts well into the programme. My impression was that it was standard operating procedure.

Apart from a reference to clearing away cake, which implies serving-duties, it's not really made clear what Charlene's doing during that scene in Tuck Season. Certainly Marie isn't present to do so, as she's shown discovering the security chain attaching Tucker's luggage to the bed at the time.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Smile


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3531] Sat, 07 May 2005 22:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Sir Lee wrote on Sat, 07 May 2005 06:11

No, what I meant was that, way back when a possible sequel (by Rachel) to "Tuck Squared" was mentioned, one title which was floated around was "Tuck Cubed" -- which seems to imply a third Tuck.


Just to clarify (since the thread in question got permanently mangled in a site crash here a couple of years ago), as far as I recall, Rachel never got involved in the multiple-Tuck idea, though her reference to "Sliders" in T^2 would have been relevant. Rose2 brought up the subject in Ellen's guestbook:
Rose2 wrote on Thu, 24 April 2003 07:51

"Tuck Squared" These multiple divergent realities always leave room for change, Alt reality #274: Valerie, Teresa and Mike did not escape the hitmen. Alt. reality #587: Eugene did not go to Susan's College, but decided not to LIVE with his bodies changes. alt. reality #2: Tuck finds out his body is changing and is happy about it and goes with the flow...


I can't remember whether anybody rode with it before I did, but I'm pretty sure I coined "Tuck Cubed", either on the original Tuck Squared thread or the thread where it is now. Anyway, it was never a serious suggestion for a fanfic from Rachel, as I recall.

(I was going to detail the eight Tucks/Vals who ended up in what started as my Tuck Cubed story, but that's not relevant here. It stalled mostly because I never found a way to take advantage of the differences between the new Tucks to actually accomplish anything, whether solving the problem I posed (who's been adding extra Tucks, and why) or helping Val-1 move forward in her life as Rachel's Valerie-2 did. That made the whole thing kind of pointless as a serious effort, and writing fiction's far enough out of my range -- "any resemblance to actual human behavior is a coincidence" -- without trying to inject humor.)

Eric
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3533] Sun, 08 May 2005 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Oh. I guess that kinda implodes my reasoning.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3534] Sun, 08 May 2005 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sir Lee wrote on Sun, 08 May 2005 09:57

Oh. I guess that kinda implodes my reasoning.

Sir Lee


What a shame. It was most entertaining. Twisted Evil


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3535] Sun, 08 May 2005 07:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Sun, 08 May 2005 02:33

Sir Lee wrote on Sun, 08 May 2005 09:57

Oh. I guess that kinda implodes my reasoning.

Sir Lee


What a shame. It was most entertaining. Twisted Evil



Just out of curiousity, which "other" Tucks/Vals do you think might be interesting to throw into the mix if you were inclined to throw another one in?

A quick check of the fan-fics I've got copies of seems to show only "Tuck the Real Thing", and "I am Not Alone" as the only alternates that are sufficiently seperate from the mainline Tuck to be candidates.

Not sure if I've missed any elsewhere though.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3537] Sun, 08 May 2005 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Sun, 08 May 2005 12:46

Just out of curiousity, which "other" Tucks/Vals do you think might be interesting to throw into the mix if you were inclined to throw another one in?


Oh, the Tuck-Baby from Firesign Tales of Uncle Ellen, of course. Twisted Evil


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3538] Sun, 08 May 2005 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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There's a couple of others as well, which I am not going to speak
about. However, there are plenty of easy 'turning points' one could
pick to split a timeline and end up with another Tuck... not all of
them in the last year or so either.


Ellen
nosig
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3542] Mon, 09 May 2005 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 02:16

There's a couple of others as well, which I am not going to speak
about. However, there are plenty of easy 'turning points' one could
pick to split a timeline and end up with another Tuck... not all of
them in the last year or so either.


Ellen
nosig



Well, yeah, there's the one who was corrected to female at birth and is only now finding out why she's infertile (while the family's investigating why her periods still haven't started, probably...)

Never met Mike (eg: family still in New York), never went out with Debbie, any combination of the above...

And ones where stuff *did* happen that we haven't thought of.


Rachel
Tuck to the Nth [message #3543] Mon, 09 May 2005 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Well, since it seems to be becoming more relevant to the discussion now (thanks, Ellen, I guess), the eight Tucks from my hopelessly stalled Tuck to the Nth fanfic. (Many if not most of them have turned up here before.)

#1 - (Val) - Rachel's version of the Tuck saga Tuck, visited by Valerie and transitioning just before Christmas.
#2 - (Valerie) - Rachel's version of the Tuck Seasons Tuck, who transitioned in early fall and got thrown into Val's timeline in December. Break with the Tuck timeline was just before school let out.
#3 - (Tuck) - Attended a military camp during the summer and succeeded in subverting it much like Valerie did Jane's. Needed a fortuitous event to keep from being ganged up on at the start, but developed confidence along the way and reached almost Ender-like status there in the end. Came back and ran into complications with Debbie, who couldn't handle a Tuck who'd developed his own ideas where the relationship was going. Further, Tuck (after an incident at camp) was starting to accept the possibility of a relationship with a boy -- the last straw as far as Debbie was concerned. Reached the same conclusion as Valerie that the double life had to go, and decided, despite Valerie's return to babysitting (until Debbie fired him), Saturday morning brunches, and the Pack, that Tuck was a closer approximation than Val. Still, as of his entrance into Val's timeline just after New Years Day, he has resisted the shots and still has to deal with being mistaken for a girl almost universally by strangers. Break with the Tuck timeline was just before school let out; if the military camp is identified with the Seasons boot camp (which I carefully didn't do), break with timeline #2 is the train trip.
#4 - (Tucker) - Dated Ellen into the summer and never got involved with Debbie beyond business dealings. Without Debbie to point out his medical problems, he didn't learn what was going on until the following April, though he got on good terms with the Pack before that after Mike started dating Kim. Started taking medical measures to stay male as soon as options were presented. Only leaped to Val-1's world because he got a motorcycle and joined Jill in Debbie's new courier service, and he was called upon to deliver some medical records to Sheila's office on a Saturday morning. (Or so it seems.) Break with the Tuck timeline: spring before the story begins. Entry into Val's world: mid-January.
#5 - (Eugene) - Defendant in the Eugene Wallace Tucker child molestation case, aka the Teenage Mutant Baby Sitter, out on bail. The Parkers discovered Valerie's secret after introducing her around when she returned the kids to a party in early August, when Tuck-1 was on his camping trip. A couple who'd been at the Tuckers' Fourth of July party (the wife worked in Sarah's real estate office; the husband with David Parker) caught on after they left that (Friday) night; by Monday, Beth was convinced that the only reason a boy would spend the summer in sundresses and a bathing suit would be to molest her kids. With the case politicized beyond recognition by a district attorney running for re-election, Tuck is maintaining a responsible male image as best he can at the urging of his lawyer, but nobody's talking about drugs or surgery until the larger issue here is settled. Entry into Val's world: late January.
#6 - (Valerie Johansson) - Don't ask.
#7 - The Tuck-2 who went to the boot camp and got mentally and physically battered there. Hospitalized indefinitely; never made it to Tuck-1's world. Break with Val's world: late spring. Break with Seasons world: the train trip.
#8 - Time of the break is uncertain. Tuck, confused, despondent and angry over developments, pulls a weapon out of the arsenal and shoots both Debbie and Travis, and then himself. Never makes it to Tuck-1's world, but serves as an object lesson as to what all the Tucks are there to try to avoid.

Eric

[Updated on: Mon, 09 May 2005 08:51]

Re: Tuck to the Nth [message #3544] Mon, 09 May 2005 09:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Eric wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 05:49

#3 - (Tuck) - Attended a military camp during the summer and succeeded in subverting it much like Valerie did Jane's. Needed a fortuitous event to keep from being ganged up on at the start, but developed confidence along the way and reached almost Ender-like status there in the end. Came back and ran into complications with Debbie, who couldn't handle a Tuck who'd developed his own ideas where the relationship was going. Further, Tuck (after an incident at camp) was starting to accept the possibility of a relationship with a boy -- the last straw as far as Debbie was concerned. Reached the same conclusion as Valerie that the double life had to go, and decided, despite Valerie's return to babysitting (until Debbie fired him), Saturday morning brunches, and the Pack, that Tuck was a closer approximation than Val. Still, as of his entrance into Val's timeline just after New Years Day, he has resisted the shots and still has to deal with being mistaken for a girl almost universally by strangers. Break with the Tuck timeline was just before school let out; if the military camp is identified with the Seasons boot camp (which I carefully didn't do), break with timeline #2 is the train trip.


Tuck in the boot camp could be an interesting read.

Eric wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 05:49

#6 - (Valerie Johansson) - Don't ask.


Wife of one Michael Johansson? Smile

And if we are going there....

#9 Valerie Jensen. branch point rather later than the stories have gone.

#10 ??? Tucker, second oldest daughter of Bill and Sarah Tucker. Branch point mid 1980. A different egg got fertilized or some such.
Re: Tuck to the Nth [message #3545] Mon, 09 May 2005 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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...and we still can reactivate that crazy idea of mine:

#11 Nathan - Most of family died in a tragedy (auto crash?) when small. Adopted by a British family and renamed "Jonathan."

And, by the way, what's the original source for the convention of using "powers" to denote different versions of the same entity? Recent usage includes the "E^2" episode of "Star Trek Enterprise," and many will remember the "Babylon Squared" episode of "Babylon 5", but this goes back AT LEAST to "Anna to the Infinite Power" (http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0085169/). Any older reference to this usage?

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck to the Nth [message #3546] Mon, 09 May 2005 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Sir Lee wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 15:50

...and we still can reactivate that crazy idea of mine:

#11 Nathan - Most of family died in a tragedy (auto crash?) when small. Adopted by a British family and renamed "Jonathan."

And, by the way, what's the original source for the convention of using "powers" to denote different versions of the same entity? Recent usage includes the "E^2" episode of "Star Trek Enterprise," and many will remember the "Babylon Squared" episode of "Babylon 5", but this goes back AT LEAST to "Anna to the Infinite Power" (http://akas.imdb.com/title/tt0085169/). Any older reference to this usage?

Sir Lee


I actually had in mind the early-season TNG episode which I think was called Time Squared - two Picards although not strictly a multiple-universe story like Parallels or Yesterday's Enterprise was - and Babylon Squared.

Having said that, it was a late late title choice. All through development it was called A Little Extra Seasoning.

For that matter, the earlier working-title for The Taken was Season to Taste.

Smile


Rachel
Re: Tuck to the Nth [message #3547] Mon, 09 May 2005 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Brooke wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 14:42

Eric wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 05:49

#6 - (Valerie Johansson) - Don't ask.


Wife of one Michael Johansson? Smile


Mmm. could have been a co-adoptee, for some reason, if some disaster befell the rest of the Tucker clan at an earlier age, but after Tuck and Mike knew each other...

I mean, still a bit young to have married... Unless the rules are a bit different in that world.

Talking of which... No, on second thoughts, let's not go there...

Wink


Rachel
Re: Tuck to the Nth [message #3548] Mon, 09 May 2005 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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rachel.greenham wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 11:19

Brooke wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 14:42

Eric wrote on Mon, 09 May 2005 05:49

#6 - (Valerie Johansson) - Don't ask.


Wife of one Michael Johansson? Smile


Mmm. could have been a co-adoptee, for some reason, if some disaster befell the rest of the Tucker clan at an earlier age, but after Tuck and Mike knew each other...

I mean, still a bit young to have married... Unless the rules are a bit different in that world.


At 16 they're old enough in most states if I recall correctly. *With* parental permission they could have been married for several years in a few.
Marriage Age [message #3549] Tue, 10 May 2005 05:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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A 2000 World Almanac -- not too far from Tuck's time period -- gives the age for marriage without parental or judicial consent at 18 in any of the three states (Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky) near Kings Island. In Ohio, with consent, the female (only) can be 16. In all three states, a judge can override the age limits.

The other exception is that age becomes irrelevant in cases of pregnancy or birth. (Interesting to see Tuck hack the medical records to make that one work...)

Eric
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3618] Thu, 02 June 2005 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Rachel, I thought you said the chapters would be showing up on a roughly monthly schedule. So, when do we get to see the next part? (We're not supposed to bug Ellen; but we're allowed to ask you, right? Razz)
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3648] Fri, 10 June 2005 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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OtherEric wrote on Thu, 02 June 2005 18:28

Rachel, I thought you said the chapters would be showing up on a roughly monthly schedule. So, when do we get to see the next part? (We're not supposed to bug Ellen; but we're allowed to ask you, right? Razz)


Your wish is granted. Smile


Rachel
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3750] Fri, 17 June 2005 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Re-reading part 1 I noticed something I'd missed the first time. It's not definite but it's a bit more support for Nathan having multiple personalities.

On the train trip he "dozes off". Or at least he assumes he does. In any case, he has no memory of a good chunk of the trip.

When he gets off the train, he has to put his hair back into a ponytail and has no memory of letting it loose. And has to search for the rubber band (which he finds on his wrist).

If he *is* a multiple, this would be a *classic* "blackout" where another personality was fronting during the "missing time".

Stretching things a bit, this could also explain the guy holding the door as he gets off the train. Getting called "love" shows the guy thought Nathan was female. This could be more than just the way Nathan looked then. "Eleanor" could have met him on the train and interacted a bit *before* they got off.

If so, I forsee Nathan running into the guy later on an outing or something. With interesting consequences all around.

And if Nathan is MPD enough to be having missing time, then the kids at school may have more reasons than he knows to think he's gay.

This would also clear up one thing that I *thought* was an inconsistency in part 2. Namely, if Eleanor was an alternate personality how could she teach him to walk properly since she'd have no experience.

But if he's having missing time, she may well have had *lots* of practice. Which disposes of that problem. Though it raises a few questions about what all she may have been doing that will come up later to cause "interesting" situations.
Re: The Taken: Nathan's Story, part 1 ("You're not alone.") [message #3751] Fri, 17 June 2005 16:13 Go to previous message
OtherEric  is currently offline OtherEric
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Interesting catch. I really do need to go back and re-read all of Rachel's stories soon.

Oh, and congratulation on being the third person tuck-obsessed enough to hit 300 posts here! (I can say that as a genuine complement since I'm one of the other two.)
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