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Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4481] Fri, 21 April 2006 00:05 Go to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Location: São Paulo, Brazil
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OK, I thought it was high time that Tuck got his own entry in the Wikipedia. Let's be frank, Ellen is doing something rather BIG here. She has written in excess of one MILLION words WITHOUT getting boring, she amassed a large number of fans, she has influenced some published authors (I have heard that both Dan Shive from "El Goonish Shive" and Erin Lindsey from "Venus Envy" are fans)...

So I did it. Search for "The Saga of Tuck" in the Wikipedia (OK, it's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_of_Tuck). OK, it's not much at present; it's hardly more than a stub. But that's what wikis are for. Please go there and add stuff.

(And no, I didn't ask Ellen for authorization. Maybe I should have. But I took care of not including any spoilers and linking to the official site, so I hope she will not mind).

Sir Lee

[Updated on: Fri, 21 April 2006 00:06]


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4482] Fri, 21 April 2006 05:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Registered: November 2002
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Sir Lee wrote on Fri, 21 April 2006 05:05

OK, I thought it was high time that Tuck got his own entry in the Wikipedia. Let's be frank, Ellen is doing something rather BIG here. She has written in excess of one MILLION words WITHOUT getting boring, she amassed a large number of fans, she has influenced some published authors (I have heard that both Dan Shive from "El Goonish Shive" and Erin Lindsey from "Venus Envy" are fans)...


You know, there needs to be an EGS crossover at some point... And I mean NEEDS...

Quote:

So I did it. Search for "The Saga of Tuck" in the Wikipedia (OK, it's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_of_Tuck). OK, it's not much at present; it's hardly more than a stub. But that's what wikis are for. Please go there and add stuff.


Hmm. I'm not sure what can be added without spoilerisation. Note that Wikipedia often includes episode and character lists and spoilers and I don't think that's a bad thing. Although spoilers and plot endings are clearly marked as such, the existence of this page raises the possibility that someone will put one up. I can kind of imagine what Ellen's reaction to that might be. Smile Having said that, odd coincidence, I just happened to look to see if it was mentioned in Wikipedia a few days ago (when it still wasn't) but didn't have the temerity to make an article myself. Razz I do agree there should be an article, I just know that there's always going to be a tension between avoiding spoilers and giving - well - encyclopaedic information. I like the fact that there are episode guides with plot synopses in Wikipedia - I look stuff like that up, on occasion, but... well, you know the rest.

I just minor-edited the URL to Ellen's page, so it will go to the index page defined by Ellen's webserver rather than directly to the main page in the frameset. (I don't really like frames either, and my private bookmark to her site deeplinks inside the frameset too, but for a public link it should reflect her choice.)


Rachel
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4483] Fri, 21 April 2006 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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To expand:

Wikipedia is not a fan resource. It has a job to do. Its job is to be fully informative.

Here's an example dilemma: It isn't obvious from the outset, but the protagonist is intersexed, and one thing the Saga could be described as, is the story of an adolescent's learning to deal with that (or not - we don't know how it ends yet). So in a large part the story deals with intersex issues. This is a highly relevant thing to include in an encyclopaedia page about the saga. It would frankly be remiss not to do so, with links to resources about intersex conditions, and the medical and political issues and rights. And probably reciprocal links too. After all, it would be useful to some real intersexed kid out there researching eir condition to discover that something like this exists - especially given the poisonous crap that makes up most of the material on the subject - and so to not make the association plain would be a disservice. What a discovery that would be for that kid! Does this trump Ellen's wish not to have spoilers about the Saga available online?

Discuss. Smile

(Although the proper place for discussion may well be in the wikipedia discussion for this page.)

(edit was to correct "It's" to "Its". Oh the shame...)

[Updated on: Fri, 21 April 2006 10:59]


Rachel
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4484] Fri, 21 April 2006 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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You don't have to guess my reactions any more...

1) I hate people doing shit like this without even bothering to inform me that they are doing it. Or asking me if I want it.

2) If anyone puts up spoilers of Tuck, anywhere, I'll consider that a violation of licensing, as well as a personal insult and a dare for me to attempt my worst. And I get to decide what's a spoiler.

I'd really suggest you ask first, before putting anything else up there. There is at least one factual error already.


I am so angry right now my chest hurts.


Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4485] Fri, 21 April 2006 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Uh, sorry? I'll shut up for a couple years now.

Sir Lee


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4486] Fri, 21 April 2006 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Look... how would you feel, if your spouse or your parents loaned your car to someone else without asking you first OR even telling you?

Ask first. I can almost be a reasonable person if asked BEFORE you do something like this.

"Joyce" asked me before setting this board up, f'instance. People have asked about putting up lists of characters and so on.


Ellen
nosig
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4487] Tue, 25 April 2006 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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My name really is Joyce. Smile I've had it since I was born. It's got a little torn and tattered over the years which is why I sometimes use other names but Joyce is how the DMV, the Social Security and the IRS know me. Smile

- Joyce/Erin/Morgan/Whoever
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4489] Thu, 27 April 2006 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 07:49

My name really is Joyce. {...} - Joyce/Erin/Morgan/Whoever


I think that says most of it.


Ellen
nosig

Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4490] Fri, 28 April 2006 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Registered: April 2006
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Ellen, how little of the Wiki entry would you be comfortable with?
While I agree with Sir Lee that The Saga of Tuck is important and deserves a Wiki entry, I feel that the contents of that entry are yours to determine.

Would you be comfortable with just the following?
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Saga of Tuck is a fiction serial written by Ellen Hayes and published on her website since 1996. As of April 2006, it has reached 115 chapters totalling in excess of a million words and still going strong.

*** Note: Do not make additions or changes to this Wiki entry without consulting with Ellen Hayes first. ---------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4491] Sat, 29 April 2006 04:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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I could certainly be wrong about this -- heaven knows I've misunderstood Ellen's rants on previous occasions.

But I don't believe Ellen was complaining about the content that Sir Lee put up there. (She noted one factual error, which I assume is the one that I corrected the day Sir Lee posted -- the year in which the story begins.) It seems clear to me, from Ellen's later postings, that Ellen's beef was the matter of posting information about Tuck there without her authorization, Sir Lee's invitation for the rest of us to elaborate on what he put there, and the fact that once a Wikipedia entry existed, anyone in the world could describe the story there in as much detail as they wanted whether Ellen was comfortable with it or not.

In any event, I can't see where MKemp's suggestion would improve matters; anyone posting a censorship message on Wikipedia is liable to get it trampled on principle. (Which I'm assuming is one reason Ellen didn't do that, or even post there the disclaimer/threat she posted in this thread, that Tuck spoilers would be treated by her as a violation of her license.)

Eric
Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4492] Sun, 30 April 2006 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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What Ellen has been doing is trying not to think too hard about it most of the time...

I am still trying to deal with the emotional turmoil this caused, and the reason(s) WHY. I don't quite have answers yet.

One of the things that bothered me is that now I have yet another place I HAVE to check regularly, to make sure that no one has altered or changed anything, or posted something I do not want posted.

For the time being, as I work on dealing with this issue in therapy and other places, I request that no one change anything.


Ellen
nosig

Re: Tuck in the Wikipedia [message #4553] Mon, 12 June 2006 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doragoon  is currently offline Doragoon
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The wiki page says that it's third-person omniscient, but isn't it third-person limited? It has a shifting focal character, but several times it's evident that we're still being told that character's side of the story.
Tuck in the Wikipedia -- Not! (Well...) [message #5624] Sun, 03 February 2008 08:36 Go to previous message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Registered: January 2003
Location: San Francisco
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Just noticed that the original brief Wikipedia article on Tuck was deleted in August of 2006.

Still present is Sir Lee's other Wikipedia reference to the Tuck Saga, in the Wikipedia article on transgender topics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transgender-related_topics
As the heading suggests, it's just a one-sentence indication of the story's existence, with a referral to Ellen's Writings page.

Eric
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