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Original Tucky Seasons [message #5548] Sat, 01 December 2007 15:09 Go to next message
Anonymous Tuckerspawn
I have just finished reading the 24 chapter original of Ellen's Tucky Seasons and I have to say, its a great read. Very smart, very humorous, and very engrossing. I fail to understand why it had been scrapped and replaced by something inferior. The original is good enough to be a standalone book and long enough for publishing on any of the various publishing presses online.

Tuck's sense of humor and attitude within just made it a very sensual read for me and provoked some thinking on how others would react around a sexy Tucker.

I dont give a rats behind about author politics. I do care that the original Tucky Seasons IS a treasure for fans of Tuck and SHOULD NOT be withheld. It is too good to be buried or hidden. That is my opinion.

Sephrena Lynn Miller
BigCloset TopShelf
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #5549] Sun, 02 December 2007 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Unfortunately for you, it's *solely* up to the author.

Under copyright law, an author has the right to decide that one of their works should never again be published.

Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #5551] Mon, 03 December 2007 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Tuckerspawn
As I stated, I don't care about Author politics, and copyright law was not the issue. Yes, it's up to the author. I stated my opinion and do not need a run around on why it isn't up or not. Just that its an excellent story and from my editing/posting experience, it should be posted. Fans of Tuck that haven't read it have no idea what they are missing. Those that have read it, understand what it is and remember it.

The story is a gem and I really wish Ellen could write again in the same light-hearted tone and fun that was Tucky Seasons.

Sephrena Lynn Miller
BigCloset TopShelf
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #5554] Wed, 05 December 2007 02:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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One thing, Sephrena, to keep in mind:

There's no question that the original Tuck Season was much lighter in character than the Tuck Saga is. But it needs to be remembered that the mainline Tuck story was much lighter too back then. (And not only the story -- I think that Tuck himself seemed to us to be a less complicated character, even if Ellen already knew better.)

Some of the difference is a matter of style: Ellen wrote original Tuck Season during a period when Tuck was in relative control of his personal situation in the "real" Tuckworld, and the replacement when he was on the verge of disaster there.

But there's a little more to it. Ellen may well have decided that the depiction of Tuck in original Seasons isn't valid -- either if there's too much of a difference between Tuck Then and Tuck Now, or if she has decided that the "old" Tuck isn't up to the task of defeating a new, more formidable Jane Thompson in a more accurate and up-to-date conception of the Seasons world.

In a way, it's comparable to re-running a race that turned out to be fixed in your favor the original time: if you can win it fair and square, you'd like that to be remembered and not the original fiasco, even though you probably won by a bigger margin when your opponent wasn't trying. Obviously Tuck's still going to "win" if the new story ever gets finished -- there's little point in writing it otherwise -- but with two more "authorities" potentially in the house and a more sophisticated surveillance system, it'll presumably take greater effort.

I liked the old Seasons, and don't much like the dark start of the new one. (Then again, I've never read Tigger's Seasons series and don't plan to, so I don't worry much about discrepancies from it, as long as Ellen makes it clear -- which she seemed to, the first time around -- just what she's satirizing. Also, when I do re-read old Tuck Season, I generally start from Tuck/Val's escape from the mall, so the briefer dark period that begins the old version isn't a factor in my enjoyment.)

Accordingly, I'd have preferred a cleaned-up version of the first 22 chapters and a "with-apologies-to-Tigger" (and to Joel Lawrence, if needed) preface.

But it's not my choice to make, and in any case I can't categorize myself as a typical reader of the story.

Eric

Style note, in case it's bothering anyone: Ellen's title begins with "Tuck Season", singular, so when I refer to the full title, I use that form. However, since it's presented as a "Seasons", plural, story (based, I believe, on Lawrence's original unfinished story title, "Seasons of Change"), my less formal references are to "old Seasons" or "original Seasons".
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #5581] Fri, 14 December 2007 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Sorry I'm late.


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

I have just finished reading the 24 chapter original of Ellen's Tucky Seasons


Which people are not supposed to be passing around. Thanks for listening to my wishes.


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

I fail to understand why it had been scrapped and replaced by something inferior.


Your judgement of "inferior" is definitely opposed to mine, here.

From when I started writing "Tucky Seasons" to when I 'finished', there were several more entire stories written, mostly by Tigger, which further developed Jane Thompson and the other characters. I did not revise the entire thing to take those into account, at least while I was writing it.

In my original version, Jane Thompson was not acting in character - she was taking Tuck's running wild with her program and her students as if she didn't really care that much. This was a horrible mis-characterization on my part. Assuming that Jane is as successful with her program as all the other stories claim, and likewise taking the other stories as semi-authoritative as describing her personality and so forth, Jane would ... not react easily to Tuck's usurpation of her control, nor Tuck's lackadaisical attitude.

Tuck also wasn't nearly as frightened as he ought to be, in a situation like it was presented. "Jeffrey Dahmer" comes to mind...

Everyone in the first version was acting sedated, calm, relaxed, no-problem... This is not what I remember from being a teenager. And I wasn't sent off to be a sex slave for some demented lunatic dominatrix, either. (though I did go to Catholic schools)


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

The original is good enough to be a standalone book and long enough for publishing on any of the various publishing presses online.


The original was as good as the sort of pap Hollywood puts out regularly, in summer. That's not IMO good enough.

As for "online publishers", they'd all be happy to take my setup money and a chunk of sales, of course; they don't edit. The ones that do, would have barfed. A lot. Before they found out the copyright issues.


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

Tuck's sense of humor and attitude within just made it a very sensual read for me


"Sensual" ? How?


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

and provoked some thinking on how others would react around a sexy Tucker.


The trick is to set things up so that I can show some of this within a more realistic framework.
Descriptions of what you mean would help me, of course...


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

I dont give a rats behind about author politics.


What?


Sephrena wrote on Sat, 01 December 2007 20:09

I do care that the original Tucky Seasons IS a treasure for fans of Tuck and SHOULD NOT be withheld.


It's my work, and I think it stinks and should be dissected for the useful bones and then the rest of the rotted carcass buried someplace where it won't stink up everything else. I can write better than that. You (all readers) deserve better than that.


I know that I suck, immensely, on writing lately; but I would like to get a rewrite finished, and I am certain that I can make a better story out of the situation.


Ellen
nosig
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6218] Thu, 16 April 2009 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous Tuckerspawn
I agree with Ellen. The original Tucky Seasons is her intellectual property and hers to do with as she pleases. I have not read the original, nor do I intend to do so. It would be the same a critiquing a painting before it is finished. There may be admirable qualities, but only a pale image of what the artist has in mind. I will patiently wait to see the finished product as Ellen sees it.

That the original Tucky Seasons was posted on the eternal world wide web and re-posted on various other sites is unfortunate, but faithful Ellen and Tuck fans can stamp out subsequent appearances as they are found like the JW's tried to destroy every copy of "Millions Now Living Will Never Die."

Jesi
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6220] Thu, 16 April 2009 20:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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I agree, The Saga of Tuck, and Tucky Season are BOTH the property of Ellen. All readers should respect her and not send copies of Tucky Seasons to others.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6224] Tue, 21 April 2009 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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I just finished reading up to current the new revised Tucky Seasons, and have now just finished comparing those to the original version. I'm impressed. I know that Ellen wanted to avoid private sharing of these, so I should probably mention that I'm re-reading my own copies of it, from the Tuck folder of my saved fiction directory. I'm a bit of a digital packrat and have a lot of older stories and fanfics saved from as far back as 1996\97. I'd have more, but no one told me iomega zip disks were the worst form of storage and I lost a bunch of stuff over the years...

Still, I admit at first I wasn't much of a fan of the "rewrite" as I then considered it to be, and missed the light-hearted tone of the "original" story with all its inversions and reversals of common Seasons tropes by adding the Tuck universe and mixing them together liberally until things exploded in interesting ways.

I now see that I was not actually [i]reading/i] the revision as closely as I should have been. All the so called darker elements were already in the original draft, they've simply been magnified and used to make the characters richer and provide more development to the plot. True I still miss some of the more light-hearted moments and wonder if some of my favorite new characters will be making an appearance, but I'm enjoying the story more now and it feels...right now.

I'm very excited by my reading of Tucky Seasons and am looking forward to whatever else Ellen decides to gift us with!

--iWindozde

Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6233] Thu, 23 April 2009 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Wel, Lisa Elizabeth is writing Charlene's Story. It's Tucky Seasons from Charlene's view.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6235] Fri, 24 April 2009 00:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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stanman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:36

Wel, Lisa Elizabeth is writing Charlene's Story. It's Tucky Seasons from Charlene's view.

Do you have any working links to this? The ones I've seen all point to a broken address... ;(

--iWindoze
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6236] Fri, 24 April 2009 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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iWindoze wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 21:39

stanman wrote on Thu, 23 April 2009 18:36

Wel, Lisa Elizabeth is writing Charlene's Story. It's Tucky Seasons from Charlene's view.

Do you have any working links to this? The ones I've seen all point to a broken address... ;(

--iWindoze


http://www.bigclosetr.us/topshelf/node/1703
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6238] Fri, 24 April 2009 10:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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Funny...that was the link that didn't want to work last night!

Thanks for posting it, as it is working now. I wonder why this fanfic isn't linked to on Ellen's fanfic listing?

--iWindoze

Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6239] Fri, 24 April 2009 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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iWindoze wrote on Fri, 24 April 2009 07:28

Funny...that was the link that didn't want to work last night!


BigCloset links of all sorts tend to fail at or near the hour. If a link fails, wait a few minutes and try again.

iWindoze

Thanks for posting it, as it is working now. I wonder why this fanfic isn't linked to on Ellen's fanfic listing?


Ellen may not know about it. Or the author may not want it linked.

I should really contact said author and ask about linking to it on my site.
icon14.gif  Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6240] Fri, 24 April 2009 23:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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In the early morning, Erin does maintenence on the site, It usually takes 5-10 minutes. Smile And I just read her new chapter 6 of Tucky Season. It shows Tuck's angst at being there, and his worry about being poisoned. But it also shows Aunt Jane's concern over Tuck. I can see Tuck finally breaking down and Jane helping him to recover. From all that's happening, I'd say that this is happening after the Christmas currently being shown, perhaps into near Easter.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6242] Fri, 24 April 2009 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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stanman wrote on Fri, 24 April 2009 23:07

I just read her new chapter 6 of Tucky Season. It shows Tuck's angst at being there, and his worry about being poisoned. But it also shows Aunt Jane's concern over Tuck. I can see Tuck finally breaking down and Jane helping him to recover. From all that's happening, I'd say that this is happening after the Christmas currently being shown, perhaps into near Easter.


!

Tuck Season, Wabbit Season, Tuck Season is an alternate timeline, starting (part one) approximately in the same time period as the main timeline, part 32 (or thereabouts: in TSWSTS 1, Tuck objects to camp because he has a job in the summer; that job is lined up in "Tuck Blind", #32 of the main timeline).

So you're only about ten months off, since "summer camp" fairly clearly doesn't start at Easter, either, and all of TSWSTS is what-Tuck-does-in-the-summer-in-the-timeline -that-he/she-doesn't-hook-up-with-Travis, apart from the very brief setup in TSWSTS 1 before the train trip.

As for "Aunt Jane's concern" ... "Honey, are you all right? Here, let me help you with that ... need a bandage? All right? You know you shouldn't make me mad like that, honey! I love you so much, I just lose control!" Or the alternate: "It's for your own good! When I was a boy, my daddy whipped me once a week, 'for the things you got away with,' he tol' us! Stop howlin', dammit! If it don't kill you, it'll make you stronger!"

Tfu.

Amy!

Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6394] Sun, 06 June 2010 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Trisha  is currently offline Trisha
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Amy! wrote on Fri, 24 April 2009 20:43

<snip>

As for "Aunt Jane's concern" ... "Honey, are you all right? Here, let me help you with that ... need a bandage? All right? You know you shouldn't make me mad like that, honey! I love you so much, I just lose control!" Or the alternate: "It's for your own good! When I was a boy, my daddy whipped me once a week, 'for the things you got away with,' he tol' us! Stop howlin', dammit! If it don't kill you, it'll make you stronger!"
</snip>




Well you do not really truly see the usual concern that Jane has for her charges being displayed towards Tuck until the great escape. Once Valerie manages to dissappear from Jane's custody and run you suddenly hear her, at one point, crying about how she's only a child and all alone etc.

I personally attribute this to two primary causes. First the story is more about Tuck/Val than it is Jane. Most of the Seasons stories where a dual narritive for the most part, as much about the student in question and his growth as it was about Jane and her own personal growth. Thus far in the first 9 chapters Jane's point of view, personal feelings, and what not that take place out of the site of Valerie have been rather limited. They are there, but they are not as constant as they are in Tigger's stories about Aunt Jane.

Also during Tuckers stay Jane has had not one but TWO troublesome studants. Charlene has, by all accounts, been a royal pain in the rear herself for Jane. While we do not have much of a story of Charlene's time as a little sister, she by all accounts has one heck of a temper. Also she, by all appearances, still thinks of herself in terms of being male. When compared to previous stories written by other authors the students would eventually hit a turning point when their thoughts when female, I suppose you could call it. It was often one of the points that would mark the start of them turning the corner due to the internal conflict this would set up inside them when they realized it. Charlene, when the story is written from her point of view, uses male pronouns and her male name in her own thoughts. This is markedly different and lends to the possibility that Charlene is infact "faking it" well enough and not entirely taken in by Janes method.

Add this to Valerie's disruptive behavior and sleep deprevation induced insanity attacks and you have Jane in an EXTREAMELY stressfull situation. She's just coming off one rough student and into another who is managing to show just how little of an effect Jane's teachings have had. She's not sleeping well, she's irritated constantly, she's suffering from classic chronic headaches that could be inturrpeted as near migraine levels. Is it any wonder she doesn't show her normal caring side behind the students back?

Jane has always chosen the role of the heavy when dealing with her students. She usually only shows her caring side to Marie, Art, and Darla. And then only when the student she is dealing with is not present. Her methods require her to hide her feelings in order for them to be effective. Good Cop/Bad Cop.

I think one of the largest reasons that it is not working out for her tho is that her "good cop" has constantly and consistantly acted in the role of "bad cop". This has left Valerie distrusting Charlene nearly completely. He does believe that Charlene is being forced to do things against her will, but he still doesn't trust her. A large part of that would likely have to do with Charlene's behavior towards Tuck/Val the entire time. Personally, I wouldn't trust Charlene either.

Still we do see glimpses of Jane's protective and caring nature. She sends Marie to take Val food even after she's been sent to bed with out supper. She actually gets the full story about the horse manure incident from Shar, even tho Tuck tried to take full blame for it. Little things like that.

Incedently I think that is probley the ONLY thing I saw that didn't get much of a note about Jane's reaction that I would have liked to see. The Manure incident. Once Charlene explained the full story and Jane realized that Tuck tried to take full blame and keep Charlene out of trouble she would have been seriously questioning what is going on in Tuck's mind. It would have stood out to the Jane Thompson I know from Tigger's stories simply because Jane would realize it was a self sacrifice and that is not a trait she attributes to new students.

Also, one thought, IF the camera's are in the mirrors why have they not noticed they where being covered? Even some moonlight coming into the room would give a faint enough image normally to show a difference between moonlight and being covered with a towel. And if they are not in the mirrors but hidden else where why have they not seen anything going on in the room? I believe that according to previous stories (Caitlyns Season) that Jane has watched students at night and gleamed information from their nocturnal activities. So why has she not been able to atleast tell the camera's where being covered?
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6396] Mon, 07 June 2010 08:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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Unless she got expert help with the camera, odds are that they are fairly normal security cams.

Which *suck* in low light levels. They aren't remotely like professional TV cameras (which cost a *lot* more and are inconveniently large).

The ones that do low-level or "in the dark" often do it using IR (the video chips can see IR pretty well, if there's a decent IR source). But if hidden behind a mirror, the IR diodes they use as a light source) would have to be disabled because they'd just reflect off the back of the mirror and blind the camera.

I've got one of the security camera that works that way. It's a royal pain in low light mode because anything close tends to get washed out by the excess IR (sort of like the way many cameras will wash everything out if you take a flash picture from less than six feet or so).

My guess is that if the drapes are drawn *and* the lights are off, they can't see anything.

All the incidents I recall from the Seasons stories of watching students at night had the room lights on.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6397] Mon, 07 June 2010 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Reminder to everyone: The Saga of Tuck and Tucky Seasons are the intellectual property of Ellen Hayes and are copyrighted by her. 'Copyright' means what it implies - Ellen has the right to control the distribution and the non-distribution of her property, and, make no mistake about it, these are no less her property than a car or computer. She withdrew the original Tucky Seasons, so please respect her wishes.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6401] Tue, 08 June 2010 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Trisha  is currently offline Trisha
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Check up in the chain of posts a bit there before going all SS on us. Reply was in regards to a post by Amy! whos post was in regards to another post about the 6th chapter of the NEW TSWSTS. So chill and put the arm down.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6402] Wed, 09 June 2010 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Yeah, but thread drift seemed to be veering off into, ah, thorny territory. Due to other concerns I'm a little sensitive on the topic of copyright. Plus, I really don't want Ellen to be distracted.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6406] Tue, 15 June 2010 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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mkemp wrote on Wed, 09 June 2010 18:11

Yeah, but thread drift seemed to be veering off into, ah, thorny territory.


??? Sorry I must have missed where that was happening. Did you by chance miss the fact the thread is old and posts begin way back in 2007?

mkemp wrote on Wed, 09 June 2010 18:11

Plus, I really don't want Ellen to be distracted.


Well that's a motive I can certainly understand. Laughing I too am suffering withdrawal symptoms.

--iWindoze
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6411] Tue, 22 June 2010 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Ellen is redoing Tucky Seasons, so the newer version should be more to her liking. Otherwise, she wouldn't have pulled the original.
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6414] Mon, 05 July 2010 09:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Trisha wrote on Mon, 07 June 2010 02:46

Charlene has, by all accounts, been a royal pain in the rear herself for Jane. While we do not have much of a story of Charlene's time as a little sister, she by all accounts has one heck of a temper.


I don't think Charlene was that out of line... but remember, normal kids are not sent to Jane's. It's not a vacation spot.

Trisha wrote on Mon, 07 June 2010 02:46

Also she, by all appearances, still thinks of herself in terms of being male. When compared to previous stories written by other authors the students would eventually hit a turning point when their thoughts when female, I suppose you could call it. It was often one of the points that would mark the start of them turning the corner due to the internal conflict this would set up inside them when they realized it.


I believe this is unrealistic in all other stories. A change in a student's INTERNAL, self identity, would likely lead to SEVERE gender dysphoria. While it's entirely possible that the AUTHORS previously had this in mind - a situation to change 'normal' male teens into gender-dysphoric whatsits - that is not what this author (me, Ellen) has in mind.

A necessary postulate, in my mind, is that a successful usual student at Jane's retains enough preference for a male identity to go back to a male identity after leaving Jane. (also retaining sanity, self-esteem, etc.; I do NOT think Jane's approach would work in real life) Exceptions, and they are shown as EXCEPTIONAL, are Darla (never quite left) and Caitlyn (had gender dysphoria, sort of, before arrival).

Trisha wrote on Mon, 07 June 2010 02:46

Charlene, when the story is written from her point of view, uses male pronouns and her male name in her own thoughts. This is markedly different and lends to the possibility that Charlene is infact "faking it" well enough and not entirely taken in by Janes method.


*yanks red herring out of your mouth* Naughty! Not supposed to eat that one, and I don't know WHERE you found it!

Charlie refers to himself as "Charlie" in his own mind for two reasons: first, he's going to go back to male as soon as he can, which is USUAL for Jane's kids; second, it's an easy way for me to write and show just whose viewpoint is being shown. If it says 'Charlie', then it's Charlie's own viewpoint, not that of Tucker or Jane or Sandy or...


Ellen
nosig
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6433] Sat, 24 July 2010 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Trisha Clements  is currently offline Trisha Clements
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Oh and yes, this is the same Trisha as the original, just lost my password and couldn't recover it. Blasted auto email wouldn't send it so I just made a new account...

And yes, I can understand that this is your own dirivitive work and so you set things up how you see them. If you didn't it wouldn't be your story. And honestly I like Tucky season the most of all the seasons stories so far.

As for the gender dysphoria issue. I also agree that in the real world Jane's method would not work. Considering the story started more along the lines of sissification fiction how ever, seeing such a method put into a positive light and having positive effects is not suprising. However, doing it to a child in real life would likely lead to some serious consequences for the youth in question in terms of mental stability unless they rebelled out right and where violent 24/7 in which case the method would fail yet again.

However since it is fiction and fantasy I have always saw that turning point where the thoughts of the studant goes female as an important part of the story. It gives that clue that things are finally starting to go some where with the student. However I also see how easy it is to use that differentiation for points of view, and it is a more realistic one than the way things are presented in previous seasons stories.


-To what world will you find your soul given when you do nothing to preserve it?
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6436] Sat, 31 July 2010 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Me, I like the Seasons House series and believe that if done correctly, could acttually work to help unruly boys if they knew that their parents knew about the school
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6456] Sun, 05 September 2010 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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stanman wrote on Sun, 01 August 2010 02:16

Me, I like the Seasons House series and believe that if done correctly, could acttually work to help unruly boys if they knew that their parents knew about the school


If anything like this had been done to me, in real life, I think I would've committed suicide. And I _AM_ gender dysphoric. If I try and think of what it would do to the psyche of a 'normal' kid, I get very very angry. Because at best they'd kill people - ever notice how many knives are in a decent kitchen? And kitchen access is seemingly not restricted at Jane's - and at worst... my mind goes blank.


Ellen
nosig
Re: Original Tucky Seasons [message #6484] Wed, 22 September 2010 16:27 Go to previous message
lurker
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There are Polynesian cultures, where if there is a large family consisting only males, one will be chosen to be raised as a female. Because they were a matriarchal society, property was held along the female line, so there was an institutional need to have a female to keep the property intact. I believed they are called fa'afafine, or mahu and considered a third gender. Unfortunately I'm unable to cite any specific documentaries or articles, closest is http://everything2.com/title/fa%2527afafine - however, being an internet source, one can't be sure of its accuracy.

However, I recalled a documentary where in earlier times the grandmother would consider a male child for this duty and the grandsons were fearful of being picked as a filial duty to the family.

Not exactly a Season's house scenario, but a cultural acceptance of forced feminization does exist somewhere in the world.
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