Home » Tuck Talk » Chapter by Chapter » Better late than never? #134 released
Better late than never? #134 released [message #5590] Sat, 22 December 2007 12:09 Go to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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You wouldn't believe how many times I rewrote the bloody therapy session, either.

And I could have cut it shorter, ending this episode about line 1050 or so and recycling the remainder into #135, but then you would've missed George's bit at the end...


Ellen
nosig
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5591] Sat, 22 December 2007 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not That Mike  is currently offline Not That Mike
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Pie! Very Happy

Fun chapter. I'm glad to see Tuck figuring out how far Sheila can be trusted.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5592] Sat, 22 December 2007 20:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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And Sheila showing why being trustworthy is the only way she could do her job or any informed and reasonable person could expect her to do her job. Logic will convince Tuck where mere assurances leave a paranoid residue.

Inclination, training and experience have made Tuck into a skeptic, but knowledge and reason can replace faith as a basis of trust. Now Tuck can work out rational failure modes for Sheila's probity and be prepared for them.

- Erin
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5594] Sun, 23 December 2007 03:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
karen_page  is currently offline karen_page
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Hi,

This chapter clarifies quite a bit for me from chapter 102 and 101.
Quote:


"Sheila said," Dad said, "and you agreed in session, that you feel more socially accepted like that, as a girl. Is that correct?"
"Oh god." I resolved never to talk to Sheila again, and never to let my parents attend another session either. Not that I'd invited them to the last one.



At first this jarred against what I'd just read in #134. I then went back to #101 and it was very unclear when Sheila had the parents in the room and when she didn't. So I'm now presuming that Sheila did have the parents in the room, and didn't tell them later, which is what I presumed at the time.

The more I read the sessions with Sheila the more I feel that she is a standard psychiatrist, able to deal with most issues, but doesn't appear to know anything about gender identity things. Sheila doesn't even appear to have been able to relate Tucks IS issues to Val.

I was going to mention about Dana here, but then realised, unless I've missed something, that I've not seen mention that Dana knows about Val. Indeed it was mentioned in #102 that Dana didn't know, so unless Tuck's parents have mentioned it, then she will be in the dark.

I think it will do Tuck some good if he feels that he can talk to Sheila about things and trust her. She obviously had never Tucks parents about the sexuality issues, which should also be a reassurance.


I wonder if Jill knew that Pam stayed the night and how Jill would react if she knew.

More things to ponder.


Karen
#134 [message #5598] Sun, 23 December 2007 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eric  is currently offline Eric
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Another nice, calm, tension-easing episode.

While reading this, I thought initially that Sheila went a bit further this time about not reporting problems than she did in the August 2 blood-oath session. But looking back at it, that doesn't appear to be the case.

The main difference, I think, between now and then -- outside of the fact that even the blood oath apparently wasn't enough to materially change their relationship or allay Tuck's suspicions before -- is that Bill and Sarah utilized Sheila, in effect, as an adversary to Tuck on Inquisition Weekend.

And don't forget -- because Tuck won't, not after years of hearing the family line on obligations (and privacy) in a work-for-hire situation -- that Bill and Sarah's money is paying for these sessions, even if Tuck's the one handing over the checks.

Bottom line, presuming Tuck isn't prepared to pay his own money for a therapist of his own choosing, is that Tuck probably ought to demand that both his parents put in writing what Bill told him on the cell phone, in exchange for his agreement to keep seeing Sheila regularly. (Not because he doesn't trust them, but because people won't necessarily agree after the fact on what a verbal agreement included, and because Tuck probably now considers his mother the greater threat of the two.)

Bill, if he's on his game, might even suggest it before Tuck does, since the implications of Tuck's phone call ought to be reasonably clear to him. (And if Sarah's agreement was as grudging as Bill made it seem, he might feel better himself to have it from her in writing.)

Eric
Re: #134 [message #5600] Sun, 23 December 2007 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Ya know, I JUST realized... I could've written in a pie fight.


*sighs deeply*



Ellen
nosig
Re: #134 [message #5601] Sun, 23 December 2007 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mia  is currently offline Mia
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 11:06

Ya know, I JUST realized... I could've written in a pie fight.


*sighs deeply*



Ellen
nosig



Do it for Thanksgiving.


*The Great Thanksgiving Pie Fight*


severely depressed right now.
need to scream.
Re: #134 [message #5602] Sun, 23 December 2007 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rachel.greenham  is currently offline rachel.greenham
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Mia wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 17:52

Ellen Hayes wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 11:06

Ya know, I JUST realized... I could've written in a pie fight.


*sighs deeply*



Ellen
nosig



Do it for Thanksgiving.


*The Great Thanksgiving Pie Fight*


Except I would find it hard to believe that any of the characters we're interested in wouldn't rather *eat* the pies... Especially if you take into account the Wrath of Tuck if all that cooking love and effort goes into a pie fight.

'Course, if it's beloved cousin Derek who throws the first pie...


Rachel
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5604] Mon, 24 December 2007 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erik  is currently offline Erik
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Tuck finally checks Val's messages.
I find it ominous that there are no messages from Travis.

Erik


You are not paranoid. We really are out to get you.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5605] Mon, 24 December 2007 01:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
maltor  is currently offline maltor
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Erik wrote on Mon, 24 December 2007 00:56

Tuck finally checks Val's messages.
I find it ominous that there are no messages from Travis.

Erik


It's not ominous when you consider that Travis DOESN'T actually have that number, just Vals private line at The Parkers (which is only hooked up when she is there and not connected in any way to the phones at home), her pager (which is still MIA since the attack) and her email address.
Re: #134 [message #5607] Mon, 24 December 2007 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not That Mike  is currently offline Not That Mike
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 09:06

Ya know, I JUST realized... I could've written in a pie fight.


*sighs deeply*



Ellen
nosig



No one would dare start a pie fight when they are there to clean the house in order to EAT said pie. Now a fight over pieces of pie that escalated to the use of nuclear or biological weapons...that I would believe.

Pie fights in anything other than Mel Brooks' and Marx Brother's movies are shameful wastes of pie.


mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Pie mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Updated on: Mon, 24 December 2007 16:51]

Re: #134 [message #5613] Sat, 29 December 2007 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brutus  is currently offline Brutus
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A fight over Tuck's pies is plausible, but not likely. However, if Kathy were there, I would bet that Kathy would stop the fight quickly, probably by sitting on the participants. And would then proceed to remove the reason for the fight by eating the pie herself. Very Happy

And I notice that Tuck is still riding around with an empty diaper box...
Re: #134 [message #5614] Sun, 30 December 2007 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Not That Mike  is currently offline Not That Mike
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One of these days that diaper box is going to come in handy. You never know when an emergency situation will call for an empty diaper box.

Or maybe it will get stolen by an insane clown.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5619] Tue, 08 January 2008 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LuLou  is currently offline LuLou
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maltor wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 22:20

her pager (which is still MIA since the attack) .


That's a dangler that doesn't make much sense. If Debbie is so concerned about the missing pager(#109), why doesn't she simply contact the pager company and cancel it? Even if she pre-paid for a year's service, it's got to be worth more than the balance for her peace of mind.


LuLou


Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #5621] Sat, 12 January 2008 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brooke  is currently offline Brooke
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LuLou wrote on Tue, 08 January 2008 00:14

maltor wrote on Sun, 23 December 2007 22:20

her pager (which is still MIA since the attack) .


That's a dangler that doesn't make much sense. If Debbie is so concerned about the missing pager(#109), why doesn't she simply contact the pager company and cancel it? Even if she pre-paid for a year's service, it's got to be worth more than the balance for her peace of mind.


The police probably had the pager company "clone" it so they could track the messages. That's a fairly standard procedure in some cases.

Having a list of what messages got sent from which numbers will let them narrow down the suspects.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8097] Fri, 26 July 2013 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Hmmm, a couple things struck me on rereading:

1) Jill's bike is a Yamaha XJ600S Seca II. Although not TOO expensive, this was *not* really a low-end, entry-level el cheapo bike. Cheap bikes are below-250cc one-cylinder utility bikes, not 600cc four-cylinder sport bikes.

2) From context (the way it was purchased -- no mention of shopping around, and she suddenly "hit her goal", meaning that there WAS a definite goal to be met), it appears to be brand-new, that is, bought for list price.

Which add up to a price of nine thousand dollars, according to this webpage.

Now, what does that tell me?

1. Jill was not really buying a bike because it's all she could afford; I'm pretty sure you could find an used car in fair shape for 9K -- Mike's junker was probably cheaper than that. She PREFERRED a bike.

2. She wasn't desperate for transportation; she *could* have bought a cheaper bike months before. But she kept working and saving for the bike she *really wanted*.

Man, Ellen keeps giving us those hints on the character's personalities... that detail (the bike model) tells me Jill is pretty determined to get what she wants and is not willing to settle for less.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8106] Sun, 28 July 2013 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Take it from me, the motorcycle was used; she did not end up paying nine thousand dollars (plus taxes title license and bullshit) for it.

I just went with the (vintage) motorcycle magazine I had...

Ellen
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8109] Sun, 28 July 2013 12:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 08:51

Take it from me, the motorcycle was used; she did not end up paying nine thousand dollars (plus taxes title license and bullshit) for it.

I just went with the (vintage) motorcycle magazine I had...

Ellen
OK, I misread the signs. Even so, she probably could get a low-end bike for about half of what she paid for the Seca. So she wasn't THAT desperate for transportation, she wanted something *nice*. I mean, here in Brazil (where vehicles are notoriously more expensive than in other places, sometimes *twice* as expensive) you can walk into a dealership and buy a *brand-new* basic workhorse Honda 100cc for about US$ 2000,00 -- an *used* one would be even cheaper.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8110] Sun, 28 July 2013 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Amy!  is currently offline Amy!
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Sir Lee wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 12:42

Even so, she probably could get a low-end bike for about half of what she paid for the Seca. So she wasn't THAT desperate for transportation, she wanted something *nice*. I mean, here in Brazil (where vehicles are notoriously more expensive than in other places, sometimes *twice* as expensive) you can walk into a dealership and buy a *brand-new* basic workhorse Honda 100cc for about US$ 2000,00 -- an *used* one would be even cheaper.


I think there's a cultural gap, here. Smile In the US, anything much less than 500cc is going to be pretty hard to find, and likely won't be recommended by anyone as a first bike. The problem is that American drivers are fairly hostile to motorcyclists, so if you're riding one, you want it to be big enough to be visible and strong enough to get you away from homicidal maniacs in motorized boxes.

I know that the pattern in (the parts of) Europe (that I know about) is to start with something at or under 250cc, and move up with increasing skill. I've never known anyone do that, here (my brothers ride (well, 'rode' for one of them), several friends have, over the years). They've all started at over 500 (650, 750, a couple started with bikes that ran to 1000 or 1200). Bikes under 500, here, are apt to be off-road; road bikes of that size are rare.

Which means that the used market makes bikes between 500-1000 pretty much the cheapest starting point, at around $1-2K.

Amy!
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8112] Sun, 28 July 2013 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Amy! wrote on Sun, 28 July 2013 20:13

I think there's a cultural gap, here. Smile
Possibly, I wouldn't know how the U.S. market for used bikes currently is. Still, I'm fairly certain that it hasn't always been that way: Honda made their big splash in the U.S. market in the 60s with their "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" campaign, selling the smallish Super Cub.

One possible factor is distances. Americans tend to think in terms of longer commutes and trips, where small-engined motorcycles are rather lacking. Europeans, Asians and (urban) Brazilians tend to buy those small motorcycles and scooters for daily commuting at rather short distances; they are cheap, utilitarian, easy to park and give almost unbelievable gas mileage. Perhaps in a more congested urban metro, like New York, those small bikes would be easier to find; I remember Peter Parker driving a moped in the Spider-Man movies...


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8113] Sun, 28 July 2013 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mkemp  is currently offline mkemp
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Remember the quote: "Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way and Americans think a hundred years is a long time."
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8121] Thu, 01 August 2013 13:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erin Halfelven  is currently offline Erin Halfelven
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Such small motorcycles are no longer legal to drive on freeways in the US. Haven't been for almost four decades.

Frankly, I rode a moped thru urban traffic on a daily 8 mile commute for six months and if I die before my time it will be because of that experience. You really need something with a bit of power. Well, that moped was WAY-underpowered, I think it had a 45cc engine. Smile

I filled it up with gas and oil when I got it though and I think I only had to fill it two or three times in six months. Had something under 8 liters for a tank.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8122] Thu, 01 August 2013 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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Erin Halfelven wrote on Thu, 01 August 2013 14:22

Such small motorcycles are no longer legal to drive on freeways in the US. Haven't been for almost four decades.

I didn't know about a minimum power requirement to ride on freeways / motorways / interstates but it does make sense. However, a quick googling around seems to indicate that in most places that minimum is quite low, about 150cc, and even 125cc in some places. So it's not like a 500cc-or-greater bike is required. (The legal distinction seems to be that you have to be riding an actual "motorcycle", and bikes with engines below that threshold are classified as "motorized bycicles" or somesuch). But even a Vespa is about 200cc, and Japanese brands have lots of models in the 180-to-250cc range. So it's market preference, not lack of available products or legal requirements.

Erin Halfelven wrote on Thu, 01 August 2013 14:22

Frankly, I rode a moped thru urban traffic on a daily 8 mile commute for six months and if I die before my time it will be because of that experience. You really need something with a bit of power. Well, that moped was WAY-underpowered, I think it had a 45cc engine. Smile

I filled it up with gas and oil when I got it though and I think I only had to fill it two or three times in six months. Had something under 8 liters for a tank.


45cc is about standard for mopeds. Many places equate (or at least used to) anything below 50cc with bicycles, so no actual license required and it can be driven by minors. That's pretty much the business logic of selling mopeds.


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: Better late than never? #134 released [message #8124] Fri, 02 August 2013 14:57 Go to previous message
lurker
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Sir Lee wrote on Thu, 01 August 2013 16:41


I didn't know about a minimum power requirement to ride on freeways / motorways / interstates but it does make sense. However, a quick googling around seems to indicate that in most places that minimum is quite low, about 150cc, and even 125cc in some places. So it's not like a 500cc-or-greater bike is required. (The legal distinction seems to be that you have to be riding an actual "motorcycle", and bikes with engines below that threshold are classified as "motorized bycicles" or somesuch). But even a Vespa is about 200cc, and Japanese brands have lots of models in the 180-to-250cc range. So it's market preference, not lack of available products or legal requirements.


Since 2005, the definition of a motorcycle requires an engine of 150cc or greater. Decades ago, in my youth, I recall that the requirement to travel on a California freeway was an engine with a minimum 15hp rating and not classified as a "motor driven" cycle. Some of my acquaintances had 125cc bikes which they legally took to the freeways as it was above 15hp. I had a Honda 350 (325cc engine) and when you crossed the bridges over the SF Bay, the wind could blow you across the lanes if you weren't prepared for it. See http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html
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