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EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6365] Fri, 26 February 2010 22:29 Go to next message
Schol-R-LEA  is currently offline Schol-R-LEA
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I know that Ellen has stated that she would not want to see SoT given the typical Hollywood treatment in a film or TV adaptation. I can't blame her for this - just by changing medium, you are, as McLuhan points out, changing the story and it's meaning, even before taking into account the mainstream penchant for completely ruining good stories.

However, any success as a printed work (unlikely as it might seem) would inevitably raise the question of an adaptation somewhere along the line. Thus, the question I pose is: could *any* form of adaptation for film or (more likely for an extended series like this) television be acceptable, or would even an idealized best case require an unacceptable amount of adaptation?

Or to put it another way: if Ellen were in the position to personally produce, direct and script an adaptation, with full artistic license and no concerns regarding funding or censorship, would the result still be the Tuck we've enjoyed?

I suspect that many will say that it wouldn't be, and really, they would be right. Screen productions are by their nature a lot less intimate than the written word, or perhaps intimate in a different way. Internal monologue must be replaced with visual presentation. Pacing becomes bound to the screening time of a scene. The length of the narrative becomes truncated: films have a limited total running time, television has more time overall to work with but has to chop it up into fixed sized episodes. Visual perspective is freer, but invariably clashes with the imagination of the readers.

That having been said, I can still see a place for an adaptation, if one could be arranged which Ellen could live with. It would not be a mainstream work - the best option, I think, is an animated series on LOGO - but I can at least imagine it as possible. Adaptation can undermine a work, but it can also transform it, add to it, even if only by contrast in the different visions of the original.

[Updated on: Sun, 28 February 2010 15:20]

Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6366] Tue, 09 March 2010 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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Schol-R-LEA wrote on Fri, 26 February 2010 21:29

That having been said, I can still see a place for an adaptation, if one could be arranged which Ellen could live with. It would not be a mainstream work - the best option, I think, is an animated series on LOGO - but I can at least imagine it as possible. Adaptation can undermine a work, but it can also transform it, add to it, even if only by contrast in the different visions of the original.


Why limit the audience so severely by restricting the Saga Of Tuck to LOGO, the "gay network" ghetto? I think it has the potential to reach a much larger audience than that, including those who would be turned off immediately only by the network itself, but might have come to love Tuck as much as we do if it weren't saddled with the stigma of being on that network. People who would normally have networks like LOGO blocked on their televisions are some of the same people who would become huge fans if they stumbled across the series flipping channels. You'd be surprised at who gets sucked into what just flipping by...

But yeah, I agree with you--an animated series is highly likely to be the best way to go, precisely [b]because[b] of its transformative nature. Because it is animated themes that would ordinarily cause offense simply slide pass the mind's censors and are blunted. Internal character traits that would otherwise be hard to show can be done in in a visual shorthand that makes them clearer or "cuter" than trying to pull those same things off with live actors. Although certainly shows like Scrubs have pushed that envelope quite a bit and become little more than a live action cartoon, so maybe with the right actors...

Who knows?

One thing I like the idea of is the possibility of a visual novel version of Tuck, made with Ren'py or ONScripter which to me combines the best of all worlds, by allowing text, audio, and the potential animation allows but on a smaller scale. I'd love some day to be able to read (play) Tuck in such a manner on a portable device or tablet...

Of course considering the music Ellen has integrated so directly into the story, the licensing would be horrendous!

Still...Pacchi's Tuck would be a dream animated! I think that version of Tuck has just enough androgynous features to pull in even people who would ordinarily be absolutely turned off by the concept. Abstraction can be good! Look at all the stuff the Simpsons, Southpark, or Family Guy gets away with because they are abstracted enough they can keep getting crap past the radar!

--iWindoze
Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6367] Fri, 19 March 2010 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Schol-R-LEA  is currently offline Schol-R-LEA
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I mostly mention LOGO out of practicality - I doubt that most other channels would touch it. While I'd love to see HBO or Showtime pick the series up, I don't hold much hope for it, even today. Saga of Tuck would be a lot more controversial than Queer as Folk or The Sopranos, I'm guessing.

Actually, one thing that occurred to me was Tuck as a graphic novel; I'm specifically thinking in terms of painted artwork, something similar to Moonshadow, the original Books of Magic, or some of Bill Sienkiewicz's less frenetic works. I don't see a traditional American comic-art style being effective for the story, and while a manga style would work, it would come out very differently; personally, I think that the painted style might suit it better. But then, my tastes are pretty odd... perhaps different parts of the story could be told in different styles, I dunno.

[Updated on: Fri, 19 March 2010 12:14]

Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6368] Fri, 19 March 2010 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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If we're talking graphic novels, (and dreaming of the perfect production) I'd like to submit M'oak as artist and story-teller to convert the plain text Tuck to sequential art from. If you've ever read any of his Thieves and Kings comic you'll understand why I think he's the perfect person to do a graphic novel translation, if not this sampler will give you an idea of his trademark style. His ability to transition between text and art in sequential format is done so smoothly you don't really notice the transition until after the fact.

If anyone could do Tuck justice in graphic novel form, it'd be him.

--iWindoze
Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6369] Fri, 19 March 2010 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sir Lee  is currently offline Sir Lee
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I have to say I disagree with Schol-R-Lea; I'm no big fan of painted comics -- while they can be visually impressive, they tend to distract from the story. Scott McCloud explained this point very well on his wonderful "Understanding Comics."

If I had my pick, I would go with Terry Moore of "Strangers in Paradise" fame. He can draw real people in bizarre situations, he can do unconventional narrative stuff when it's needed, and his artwork is clean, effective and not distracting.

A slightly more cartoony style, such as suggested by iWindoze, might work too.

A consideration should be artist productivity; The Tuck saga is HUGE. Alex Ross might take the rest of his life to paint it on its entirety. We would love to have somebody like Jack Kirby at his prime, when he could churn out four or five pages a day...

[Updated on: Fri, 19 March 2010 21:22]


Don't call me Shirley. You will surely make me surly.
Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6372] Sat, 27 March 2010 09:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ellen Hayes  is currently offline Ellen Hayes
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Actually, probably the best way to translate Tuck to a moving-visual media, video-type, would be an extended series on YouTube or a similar site. If lonelygirl15 could be as big as it (reportedly) was...

As for static-visual art, I dunno. I'll check out, uh, whoever got mentioned up there by iWindoze.

I met Terry Moore once, but didn't talk too much to him. I hope he doesn't remember me, I was sort of stupid.
He's been a minor influence to Tuck. SIP is interesting, though IMO it goes into Realms Of Power kind of early, and I'm about lifetime-tired of stories dealing with that power level (or higher).

One artist I like, and I think would do a good job, is Phil Foglio. But I'll never even hear about the money that would be necessary to pay him to do it...

One that would likely be mentioned by someone that knows me is Jhonen Vasquez.
"Who's that?" you ask?
He's the fellow who did "Johnny The Homicidal Maniac". Or, more likely you've seen it, "Invader Zim." But I don't think he'd do Tuck like I'd want it done; I'd have to mind-control him or something.


Ellen
nosig
Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6382] Tue, 13 April 2010 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
iWindoze  is currently offline iWindoze
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Ellen Hayes wrote on Sat, 27 March 2010 08:48

One that would likely be mentioned by someone that knows me is Jhonen Vasquez.
"Who's that?" you ask?
He's the fellow who did "Johnny The Homicidal Maniac".


Now that would qualify as dark...funny, but definitely dark humor there.

--iWindoze
Re: EGS: Tuck in other media? [message #6412] Tue, 22 June 2010 05:37 Go to previous message
stanman  is currently offline stanman
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Registered: May 2008
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Me, I think that there are some Mange style comics that'd be great to publish Tuck as a series and also as anime.
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